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[ Not all men have this wisdom (: ]

Interesting insight from Gamaliel.. but nevertheless, poor guy , was ROBBED of Jesus by his religion.. His religion slabbed and toe tagged him DOA, and put him into the very camp that crucifed his very salvation.. Probably the same with Nicodemus.. Could be ALL religion is of the "devil".. To most, I think, religion is a straight jacket and a 2nd reality.. to most..

What would a real God need with a religion, any religion.?.. It is true, that psuedo-Gods need religion.. to ligitimize their respective clergys.. I know of (not a few) people that found God by prayer, simply reaching out to him/it.. I have a sense that the real God knows whether you are reaching out to him/it.. or playing a religious game.. A purely anecdotal diagnosis true, but it seems to clear to me..

Then again we have Saul(Paul of Tarsus), known for attacking the Jesus believers(whom were not a religion or even a cult), they were Jews.. Yet, when he reached out he was knocked for a loop, either metaphorically or actually.. it took a bit of time for him to recover from his religious bent, his Judaism.. I presently know many recovering Jews, its not easy for them, but most become very serious Jesus followers and believers.. Most have had religion "up to here(makeing hand gesture)".. and have no inclination to make the mistakes of the/their past..

Could be that religion(all religion) separates the sheep from the goats, and is a good thing.. because a simple honest prayer to the real God for clarity can make the difference.. from a religious 2nd reality, to a reality that transcends religion..

...because a simple honest prayer to the real God for clarity can make the difference.. from a religious 2nd reality, to a reality that transcends religion....

Amen, dear hosepipe! And then "real life" may commence.... Thank you for your witness unto Truth.

Totally sideline, hosepipe, but do we have any Scriptural account testifying that Gamaliel was not saved? Not saved ever? Couldn't he might have been? (:

Also, there's a new Sunday program on my local Christian station that I found interesting and so looked up their Web site. You may find you like what they have to say, too: Plain Truth Ministries

Scripture readings and teachings at Shady Rill today were from Zechariah 14:1-10 and Micah 4:1-8!!!

Could be that religion(all religion) separates the sheep from the goats, and is a good thing.. because a simple honest prayer to the real God for clarity can make the difference.. from a religious 2nd reality, to a reality that transcends religion..

Interesting thought, hosepipe. I suspect the problem is not in the religion per se but in the adherents' attitude toward it. If they worship the leader, founder or doctrine instead of God - they are in darkness.

Some believers - especially new believers - may be more comfortable receiving the interpretation of Scripture from someone they trust. And some need the approval of others.

Jesus warns us this way:

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. - Mark 7:7

IMHO, the ones most at risk are those who - in position of authority in organized religion - abuse their office and mislead the congregation on Spiritual matters.