Grass Roots (58,866 Denver residents voted to legalize pot among them, these moms)

Denver Post ^ | Dec. 27, 2005

[Aracelis]

So must an ethical psychologist also be a teetotaler lest he ever have a patient who's a problem drinker?

How is the drug's legal status relevant to the hypocrisy of advising someone to stop doing what one does oneself?

You have missed the entire point of my replies, and I strongly suspect your agenda has absolutely nothing to do with ethical behavior.

There is a distinct difference between a therapist consuming a legal adult beverage with dinner but not getting snockered, and the therapist who chills out with an illegal joint. If you cannot comprehend that difference, there is little I can do to persuade you.

Consume all the drugs you wish, but realize there will be a price paid at some point. As for me, I will not indulge in alcohol to excess, nor will I ever use illegal drugs. Personal experience as a paramedic, and being married to an abusive alcoholic have taught me that there is no such thing as benign illicit drug use.

Telling your kid not to steal while you pad your expense account is hypocrisy.

A therapist involved in an abusive relationship, while counseling his or her clients to remove themselves from similar relationships is hypocrisy.

A married televangelist who calls down hellfire onto all adulterers, while secretly visiting prostitutes constitutes hypocrisy.

Hypocrisy is pretending to be virtuous, while not actually being virtuous. Individuals with emotional, psychological, or substance abuse issues tend to trust (at least initially) that their therapist has a better grasp of reality than they do. If that same therapist uses illegal drugs, then I would seriously question the initial assumption.

[Freebird Forever]

it would be something widely used that gave people enjoyment that the government couldn't adequately (in it's own mind) tax.

That's why marijuana is illegal, it's that simple.

I believe that there is more to its illegal status than that.

The tax problem can be addressed with a system styled after the the Federal Firearm License program with one license (and fee) for personal use growing, another for commercial production, another for breeding, importing, sales, etc.

Pay the money, have the license on the premises, and you're good to go.

The JBT's could then spend all their time chasing tax evaders and leave the law abiding agriculturists alone.

[Know your rights]

How is the drug's legal status relevant to the hypocrisy of advising someone to stop doing what one does oneself?

There is a distinct difference between a therapist consuming a legal adult beverage with dinner but not getting snockered, and the therapist who chills out with an illegal joint.

I agree that there is a difference, and I have asked you to say how that difference is relevant to the hypocrisy of advising someone to stop doing what one does oneself. Will you answer the question?

Personal experience as a paramedic, and being married to an abusive alcoholic have taught me that there is no such thing as benign illicit drug use.

How would being a paramedic allow you to see benign illicit drug use? By definition, benign illicit drug use doesn't send the user to the paramedics.

[oldbrowser]

All equally true about the legality of the drug alcohol. Do you support banning that drug too?

I come from a long line of alcoholics, lives full of promise cut short or wasted.

I didn't say I supported banning Pot nor do I support banning alcohol. However I don't think it should be promoted as perfectly normal and healthy either.

[Know your rights]

I didn't say I supported banning Pot nor do I support banning alcohol. However I don't think it should be promoted as perfectly normal and healthy either.

Then we agree.

[RambozoDClown]

I disagree. I mean sometimes when you have been working all day you just want a little help relaxing. Some drink a beer. would you say they have "problems"? I doubt it. Millions of people do it. The fact that some prefer a J doesn't matter. Nobody is perfect. Nobody is in control all the time though many like to pretend they are. Everybody has their quirks that someone else would love to stop them from doing.

[Aracelis]

Will you answer the question?

I have repeatedly answered your question. You simply have an axe to grind. Kindly take your argumentative nature somewhere else.

How would being a paramedic allow you to see benign illicit drug use? By definition, benign illicit drug use doesn't send the user to the paramedics.

I believe it is a matter of perception by the user, wouldn't you agree?

[Know your rights]

Will you answer the question?

I have repeatedly answered your question.

"If you cannot comprehend that difference, there is little I can do to persuade you" is not an answer.

How would being a paramedic allow you to see benign illicit drug use? By definition, benign illicit drug use doesn't send the user to the paramedics.

I believe it is a matter of perception by the user, wouldn't you agree?

That's an odd definition of "benign." But even under that definition it remains the case that unless you've seen at least a truly random sample of all drug users, you can't know that there is no such thing as benign illicit drug use.

[Aracelis]

That's an odd definition of "benign." But even under that definition it remains the case that unless you've seen at least a truly random sample of all drug users, you can't know that there is no such thing as benign illicit drug use.

You definitely have a problem and I suggest professional help. Nitpicking, diversion, questioning and attacking the moral and ethical standards of others all fit a particular pattern of abuse. Please avail yourself of psychotherapy.

[Know your rights]

it remains the case that unless you've seen at least a truly random sample of all drug users, you can't know that there is no such thing as benign illicit drug use.

Nitpicking,

What a pathetic evasion.

diversion,

I directly addressed your statement.

questioning and attacking the moral and ethical standards of others

I have not done that. (But you have attacked my mental health.)

[Aracelis]

Nitpicking,
What a pathetic evasion.
diversion,
I directly addressed your statement.
questioning and attacking the moral and ethical standards of others
I have not done that. (But you have attacked my mental health.)

You know, I actually looked forward to another of your manipulative posts...and darn it if you just didn't go right ahead and provide me with some lighthearted entertainment. Thank you very much! :^)

BTW, there are free clinics available. Perhaps they can fix whatever "trauma" you've suffered from our discourse. Let me know of your progress, for I am genuinely interested.

[oxcart]

Lol I love your views on this topic, but you left out ETOH's effect on serotonin which I think is a profound theory of addiction.

Badawy and others have found that alcohol, allopurinol, caffeine, morphine, nicotine, antidepressants (both old and newer SSRI's), salicylate, phenobarbitone all inhibit Tryptophan Pyrrolase (please see the 2 abstracts below) when given in a chronic manner. Chronic administration of the above drugs enhances rat brain 5-hydroxytryptamine synthesis by increasing the availability of circulating tryptophan in the brain.

Br J Pharmacol. 1981 Oct;74(2):489-94. Related Articles, Links


Reversal by naloxone of the effects of chronic administration of drugs of dependence on rat liver and brain tryptophan metabolism.

Badawy AA, Evans M, Punjani NF.

1. Chronic administration of ethanol, morphine, nicotine or phenobarbitone has previously been shown to enhance rat brain 5-hydroxytryptamine (5-HT) synthesis by increasing the availability of circulating tryptophan to the brain secondarily to the NADPH-mediated inhibition of liver tryptophan pyrrolase activity. 2. Naloxone reverses the above enhancement of 5-HT synthesis and the accompanying increase in tryptophan availability to the brain and the inhibition of liver tryptophan pyrrolase activity. 3. It is suggested that naloxone exerts these effects by antagonizing the chronic drug-induced increase in liver [NADPH]. 4. Naloxone increases serum corticosterone concentration in rats chronically treated with the above four drugs of dependence. Possible explanations of this effect are discussed.

PMID: 7198499 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Link; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=7198499&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_DocSum


Tryptophan metabolism and disposition in relation to alcohol and alcoholism.

Badawy AA.

Cardiff Community Healthcare NHS Trust, Biomedical Research Laboratory, Whitchurch Hospital, Wales, United Kingdom.

Tryptophan (Trp) metabolism and disposition in relation to alcohol and alcoholism are briefly reviewed. The changes observed could generally be classified into those: (1) exerted by acute or chronic alcohol administration and/or subsequent withdrawal; (2) already present in the absence of alcohol consumption, such as in naive alcohol-preferring animals or in abstinent alcoholics. In normal rats, acute ethanol administration activates liver Trp pyrrolase and exerts a biphasic effect on brain 5-HT (5-hydroxytryptamine or serotonin) synthesis, whereas chronic ethanol administration and subsequent withdrawal exert opposite effects on 5-HT synthesis mediated by corresponding changes in liver Trp pyrrolase activity. A cerebral 5-HT deficiency has been demonstrated in the alcohol-preferring C57BL mouse strain and in a number of alcohol-preferring rat lines, the mechanism of which is understood only in two models; the C57B1 mouse strain has a higher liver Trp pyrrolase activity and the P rat line from Indiana has a lower density of serotonergic fibres in cerebral cortex. In man, acute ethanol intake lowers circulating [Trp] and its availability to the brain, almost certainly by activating liver Trp pyrrolase. Some evidence exists for possible inhibition of pyrrolase activity in non-abstinent chronic alcoholics. Evidence in recently abstinent alcoholics suggests that Trp availability to the brain may be impaired and that this may be particularly so in patients with positive family history. Exploration of this latter possibility may be important in understanding the biological basis of predisposition to alcoholism.

Publication Types:
Review

PMID: 8906244 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

link; http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8906244&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum

This simple pathway (Tryptophan Pyrrolase...AKA Oxygenase) explains many of the addictive drugs in our society. I think science should look to the liver (and not so much to the brain) for what might be the best chemical theory of addiction.

[Aracelis]

Lol I love your views on this topic, but you left out ETOH's effect on serotonin which I think is a profound theory of addiction.

I suspected I was in the presence of greatness, but you've now confirmed my suspicions. Actually, I'm a bit chagrined about exerting effort in a useless debate. But...we all make mistakes.

This simple pathway (Tryptophan Pyrrolase...AKA Oxygenase) explains many of the addictive drugs in our society. I think science should look to the liver (and not so much to the brain) for what might be the best chemical theory of addiction.

I agree that we must use a holistic perspective when treating addictions, for the alteration of one metabolic pathway does not end there - the entire organism is affected. However, at the moment I am quite intrigued by the dopamine reward system. I will be presenting a paper concerning current and promising therapies for alcoholism in April.

My graduate work was done in inorganic chemistry, with a little organic thrown into the mix, thus I have a lot of catching up to do. Bio and neurochemistry are delightfully challenging.