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The Church of Jihad-Why do Presbyterian leaders insist on meeting with Hezbollah?
Frontpagemagazine ^ | 12-23-05 | Patrick Devenny

Posted on 12/23/2005 5:48:05 AM PST by SJackson

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To: Unam Sanctam; righttackle44

Google to the rescue. Yes, Hewett is PCUSA. Here you go:

"As an elder inthe PCUSA, I don't think this is an occasion for the ordinary amount of PCUSA process."
http://hughhewitt.com/archives/2005/08/28-week/index.php

Scroll to "PCUSA Congregations in the Recovery Zone", go down to the 2nd paragraph. Typo per original.


21 posted on 12/23/2005 8:52:25 AM PST by PAR35
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To: PAR35
You are making an assumption about the PCUSA. Got any evidence.

In the last few years, evangelical pastors have been ousted under pressure at at least 3 of the largest and more conservative PCUSA churches. In addition, they tried to revoke the ordination of the moderate pastor who edits the Layman.

Oh, I get it now; there are factions who do not consider Presbyterians Christian because of evil behavior by some of their heirarchy. There are those who feel the same about Catholics.

God looks upon the heart; only He knows for sure.

22 posted on 12/23/2005 10:11:31 AM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?")
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To: PAR35

Thank you. Really appreciate it.


23 posted on 12/23/2005 10:15:26 AM PST by righttackle44 (The most dangerous weapon in the world is a Marine with his rifle and the American people behind him)
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To: JimRed
Oh, I get it now; there are factions who do not consider Presbyterians Christian because of evil behavior by some of their heirarchy. There are those who feel the same about Catholics.

There are many Christians who are members of the PCUSA. It is not, however, a Christian denomination any more.

24 posted on 12/23/2005 10:27:23 AM PST by PAR35
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To: SJackson

It was not a PCUSA sanctioned group that met with terrorists, it was rather a small delegation from one presbytery - Chicago Presbytery. The meeting has not met with approval by the Presbytery but has caused and is causing a great deal of fallout.

Jimmy Carter, Dan Rather, et. al. have met with various dictators/terrorists/despots - like Rumsfeld meeting with Saddam Hussein - and we know well they do not represent all of America.


25 posted on 12/23/2005 10:41:15 AM PST by PresbyRev
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To: PresbyRev

I think most people recognize this isn't representative of Church membership, even in Chicago.


26 posted on 12/23/2005 10:56:47 AM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: Vaquero

The jihadists have promised to kill them last..


27 posted on 12/23/2005 11:02:52 AM PST by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: PresbyRev

If this was not a PCUSA sanctioned group, then why was PCUSA employee Nuhad Tomeh aka "Ambassador to Hezbollah" the emissary?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1534562/posts


Rev. Dr. Nuhad Tomeh, Presbyterian Church USA Ambassador to Hezbollah
Jewish Russian Telegraph ^ | Dec 3, 2005 | JRT


Now, let's meet Rev. Dr. Nuhad Tomeh, an employee of Presbyterian Church USA. It looks like his main mission is to be full Representative and Ambassador to Hezbollah (Party of God). Whenever Presbyterians have a contact with the terrorist organization Nuhad Tome is always listed as a facilitator: EMEU in May 2002 SFTS in June 2004 Ron Stone in October 2004 Worley in October 2005


28 posted on 12/23/2005 11:20:19 AM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: sheik yerbouty

LOL....not.

I use to work with a Bosnia Muslim he was a building mechanic for the plant I work in..... and if you got him pissed off he would say..."I like you, I kill you last."


29 posted on 12/23/2005 12:25:06 PM PST by Vaquero ("An armed society is a polite society" R. A. Heinlein)
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To: SJackson
"Furthermore, Worley promised his host to help disavow Americans of the notion..."

'Disabuse' is the word you need there, good Rev.
30 posted on 12/23/2005 12:33:22 PM PST by kenavi ("Remember, your fathers sacrificed themselves without need of a messianic complex." Ariel Sharon)
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To: SJackson

It's quite simple actually, being the good Christians they are they feel it is their Christian duty to extend the hand of Christian Fellowship and if necessary turn the other cheek.

Being a good Christian transcends being an American.


31 posted on 12/23/2005 12:37:35 PM PST by bert (K.E. ; N.P . Slay Pinch)
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To: SJackson
I think most people recognize this isn't representative of Church membership, even in Chicago.

Denominational activity is funded by the church membership. Unless a church has refused to pay the per-deim assessment to the presbytery (they can, and a few have), it is funding and supporting the activities of the denominational leadership.

32 posted on 12/23/2005 12:46:48 PM PST by PAR35
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To: bert
It's quite simple actually, being the good Christians they are they feel it is their Christian duty to extend the hand of Christian Fellowship and if necessary turn the other cheek....Being a good Christian transcends being an American.

Funny he didn't say that.

We do not wish to defend the U.S. administration. We all elected the Democratic Party against the Republican Party. Rest assured that we will return to the U.S. in order to continue our activity for peace, and we want to hear about the charity activities and the cultural and social activities organized by Hizbullah in south [Lebanon]. The Americans hear in the Western media that Hizbullah is a terrorist organization, and they do not hear any other opinion. They know nothing about the party's concern for the people of the south. We have suffered much pressure on the part of Jewish organizations in the U.S. because [of our help in] divesting corporations working with Israel. We want Jerusalem to be a united city, just as we encouraged the Palestinians and the Jews to work for peace, and we demanded that our administration adheres to this position
Robert Worley

He isn't turning the other cheek, he's turning a blind eye to a terrorist group which, I admit, kills mostly Jews, presuming one gives them a free pass for the hundreds of American's they killed two decades ago. I don't.

The organization he shares goals and common opponents with.

Hizballah / Hizballah
Party of God
Islamic Jihad
Islamic Jihad for the Liberation of Palestine
Organization of the Oppressed on Earth
Revolutionary Justice Organization

Hizbollah is an Islamic freedom fighting movement founded after the Israeli military seizure of Lebanon in 1982, which resulted in the formation of the Islamic resistance units for the liberation of the occupied territories and for the ejection of the Israelis forces. Hizbollah was established in 1982 during the Lebanon War when a group of Lebanese Shi'ite Muslims declared themselves to be the "Party of God" (Hizb Allah). Upon the realization that the IDF was entrenching itself in south Lebanon, and influenced and assisted by the recently stationed 1,500 Iranian Revolutionary Guards in Lebanon, Hizballah cells began developing with the immediate desire to resist the Israeli invasion. Hizbollah began establishing its base in Lebanon in 1982 and has expanded and strengthened ever since, primarily due to its wave of suicide bombings and foreign support by Iran and Syria.

Description

Radical Shia group formed in Lebanon; dedicated to creation of Iranian-style Islamic republic in Lebanon and removal of all non-Islamic influences from area. Strongly anti-Western and anti-Israeli. Closely allied with, and often directed by Iran, but may have conducted operations that were not approved by Tehran. A very important factor that developed Hezbollah was the establishment of the Islamic Revolution in Iran that was led by the Imam Khomeini. This revolution consolidated new concepts in the field of Islamic thought mainly the concept of Willayat Al-Faqih. The revolution also generalized Islamic expressions against the west such as arrogance, the great Satan, hypocrites and the oppressed. Due to that it was only normal for the ideological doctrine in Iran to take root in Lebanon. This tie was very quickly translated on the ground by direct support from the Islamic Republic of Iran through its revolutionary guards and then to Hezbollah that was resisting the Israeli occupation. This religious and ideological tie between Hezbollah and Iran following the revolution with its stance towards the Zionist entity had a great effect on releasing vital material and moral support to Hezbollah. Hezbollah’s ideological ideals sees no legitimacy for the existence of Israel, a matter that elevates the contradictions to the level of existence. And the conflict becomes one of legitimacy that is based on religious ideals. The seed of resistance is also deep in the ideological beliefs of Hezbollah, a belief that found its way for expression against the occupation of Lebanon.

Activities

Once established as a militia, Hizbollah received acclaim and legitimacy in Lebanon and throughout the Muslim world by fighting against IDF and SLA troops. In fact, since 1988 Hizbollah replaced Amal (the other prominent Shi'ite organization in Lebanon) as the predominant force due to its activity against Israel. Over the years Hizbollah military operations have grown to include attacking IDF and SLA outposts, ambushing convoys, laying explosive devices booby-trapping cars, and launching long range mortar shells and Katyusha rockets at IDF outposts and into Israel proper. Between the spring of 1983 to the summer of 1985 the Hizballah launched an unprecedented wave of suicide bombings which included an attack on the US embassy and at a US Marine base in Beirut. Known or suspected to have been involved in numerous anti-US terrorist attacks, including the suicide truck bombing of the US Embassy and US Marine barracks in Beirut in October 1983 and the US Embassy Annex in Beirut in September 1984. Elements of the group were responsible for the kidnapping and detention of US and other Western hostages in Lebanon. The group also attacked the Israeli Embassy in Argentina in 1992.

The organization was very active against Israel during its stay in Lebanese territory, and since the IDF's withdrawal from Lebanon in May 2000 it began focusing on increasing and expanding its activities within Israel with the aim of carrying out" quality" attacks in Israeli territory, thus disrupting any attempt at dialogue and any opportunity to return to the peace process. This became evident during earlier attempts to hold negotiations with regard to a 'hudna' (ceasefire), when Hezbollah operators encouraged attacks aimed at causing these contacts to fail.

The organization operates against Israel in four main ways:

Bringing terrorists and collaborators through the border crossings using foreign documents Setting up a terrorist organization inside Israel and in Judea, Samaria and the Gaza Strip Cross-border operations - smuggling weapons and terrorists

Financial support for Palestinian organizations and groups.

Since 2003 it has been possible to see a trend of increasing cooperation between Hezbollah in Lebanon and operational entities among the other Palestinian terrorist organizations, with the accent on Tanzim, Islamic Jihad, Hamas and the Popular Front. This cooperation is particularly evident between Hezbollah and the Tanzim and in practice, in recent months Hezbollah has served as a kind of "external command" for most of the Tanzim organizations in the territories.

Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, admitted for the first time in public the existence of a Hezbollah unit responsible for activities with the Palestinians. He said this on Almanar television on July 19, 2004, after the death of Ghaleb Awaleh, a senior Hezbollah terrorist: "… the fallen Ghaleb Awaleh is like the fallen Ali Salah, from the group which dedicated its life in recent years to helping our brothers in conquered Palestine. We do not wish to conceal the truth. We declare it and glory in it. Ghaleb Awaleh today has fallen on the Palestine road. He is a Jerusalem martyr. He is an Al Aksa Mosque martyr. He is a martyr in the fight against the Zionist enterprise… and we will not to abandon this fight and have never abandoned it. We are in a position where we will fight openly and we will fight clandestinely."

Hezbollah's methods of controlling terrorist organizations in the territories are similar to those characteristic of the involvement of the command centers of Palestinian terrorist organizations abroad (Hamas and Islamic Jihad) in the actions of their organizations inside the country. Striking in this framework are the instructions to carry out mass murder attacks within Israeli territory, mediation between terrorists at the different centers of action, the large-scale transfer of money, and finally, coordination of the effort to upgrade the terrorist capabilities of the organizations.

Strength

Today the number of members involved in combat activity in southern Lebanon is under 1,000. But it has many activists and moral supporters.

Location/Area of Operation

Operates in the Al Biqa' (Bekaa Valley), the southern suburbs of Beirut, and southern Lebanon. Has established cells in Europe, Africa, South America, North America, and elsewhere. Its training bases are mostly in the Syrian-controlled Biqa Valley, and its headquarters and offices are in southern Beirut and in Ba'albek.

External Aid

Hezbollah was established by the Iranian Revolutionary Guards who came to Lebanon during the 1982 "Peace for Galilee" war, as part of the policy of exporting the Islamic revolution. It receives substantial amounts of financial, training, weapons, explosives, political, diplomatic, and organizational aid from Iran and Syria.

In Israel's view, Hezbollah's activities are part of Iran's overall policy with regard to Israel, which is to fan the flames of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and initiate terrorist activities against Israel, despite the fact that Hezbollah is a Lebanese organization consisting entirely of terrorists from Lebanon, with no national connection to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In view of Iran's interest in smudging its fingerprints with regard to direct control over internal terrorist activities, Hezbollah's status is significant as Iran's front-line operative arm against Israel.


33 posted on 12/23/2005 1:03:49 PM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: PAR35
Denominational activity is funded by the church membership. Unless a church has refused to pay the per-deim assessment to the presbytery (they can, and a few have), it is funding and supporting the activities of the denominational leadership.

Yes, but I wouldn't hold individual Church members responsible any more than I'd buy into the earlier expressed notion that this is an instance where being a good Christian transcends being a good American.

34 posted on 12/23/2005 1:06:05 PM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: SJackson

OOOps...

I left off the </sarcasm> tag

My Presbyterian congregation is infested with ultra liberals.


35 posted on 12/23/2005 1:08:25 PM PST by bert (K.E. ; N.P . Slay Pinch)
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To: bert
I left off the tag

Makes more sense :>)

36 posted on 12/23/2005 1:09:45 PM PST by SJackson (There's no such thing as too late, that's why they invented death. Walter Matthau)
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To: SJackson

The churches in the Chicago Presbytery have responsibilities to manage the activities of their presbytery. The Chicago Presbytery churches would be well within their rights and responsibilities to call for the resignation of the top paid staff (Reynolds) for visiting Hezbollah.

The churches would also be within their rights and responsibilities to censure the other 17 from the Chicago Presbytery who visited Hezbollah.

If the Chicago churches and members do nothing, then they through their inaction become complicit.


37 posted on 12/23/2005 2:10:08 PM PST by Presbyterian Reporter
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To: SJackson
Yes, but I wouldn't hold individual Church members responsible

To use an extreme example, would you have held individual members of the Nazi party responsible for the excesses of Hitler's regime even if they didn't commit any crimes against humanity?

Individuals who fund such activity bear some level of responsibility.

38 posted on 12/23/2005 2:56:35 PM PST by PAR35
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To: bert
OOOps... I left off the tag

You had me fooled.

39 posted on 12/23/2005 2:58:59 PM PST by PAR35
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To: SJackson

A TV program was on the other night about the three religions, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. Cable, maybe the history channel. The program was a rehash of PC baloney and an insult to one's intelligence. One idiot Jewish woman met with a Palestinian group who educated her about their many 'grievances'. Afterward, she announced that she'd been upset by what happened on Sept. 11, but now understood why Muslims had taken such an extreme step. She couldn't say '9/11'. She tried to whitewash the murder of 3000 innocent Americans. The entire program was Muslim propaganda. Period.


40 posted on 12/23/2005 3:11:38 PM PST by hershey
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