Posted on 12/20/2005 7:07:23 PM PST by strategofr
Some strange news from Germany last week. A mainstream paper reported that, “intelligence sources” revealed that Iran had received, from North Korea, 18 BM-25 missiles. But wait, isn’t the BM (Battle Machine)-25 an obsolete Soviet Cold War MLRS (multiple launch rocket system)? The Germans reported that the BM-25 was also known as the SS-N-6, another obsolete Soviet system, this time a submarine launched ballistic missile. Now that’s really interesting. Why are the North Koreans spending so much time and effort developing their own ballistic missiles, when they already have a proven design from the Russians.
Over the last three decades, t The North Koreans have basically scaled up Russian SCUD missiles to produce the 1,300 kilometer range Nodong missile. They are thought to have about a hundred of them, and have tested them. Less ready are ten or so Taepo Dong 1 missiles, with a range of about 3,000 kilometers. They are also working on an ICBM, the Taepo Dong 2, with a range of 6,000 kilometers, but this one is believed stuck in development, and has not been tested. North Korea sold Nodong technology to Pakistan and Iran, which then built their own versions (the Hatf V and Shihab 3, respectively).
The real BM-25 is a 250mm rocket, with a range of 20-30 kilometers, and mounted six to a truck. It was developed in the 1950s, and is still in service with a few countries that cannot afford anything of more recent vintage. The SS-N-6 is a 1960s vintage ballistic missile, and is known in Russia as the R-27, while the BM-25 is what the Russians call the BM-25. “SS-N-6” is a NATO code name for the R-27. This was Russia’s first true submarine launched ballistic missile, and sixteen of them were carried in Yankee class SSBNs (missile carrying nuclear submarines.) The R-27 had a range of 2,800 kilometers, while the Germans reported the range as 2,500 kilometers. Close enough. But what are these missiles doing in North Korea?
After the R-27 was replaced by more modern missiles in the 1970s, the missile continued to be used for scientific research until 1990. By that time, 492 R-27s had been launched, 87 percent of them successfully. It would be very embarrassing for the Russians if someone had illegally exported SS-N-6/R-27 missiles to North Korea. It is more likely, and has been reported a few years ago, that the Russian organization that designed the R-27, had illegally sold the plans for the R-27 to North Korea. This was supposed to have happened sometime in the 1990s, and the main reason for the deal was to obtain the missile guidance technology. The Russians kept improving the guidance system of the R-27 through the 1980s, while the North Koreans were desperate for missile guidance technology.
The German story had the 18 “BM-25s” arriving in kits, with much assembly required. If the North Koreans had built R-27s, from the plans they obtained, they never tested them. It was believed that the North Koreans were not interested in building R-27s, just getting their hands on some of the technology. The real story here appears to be several stories, and technologies being jumbled together, then served hot, if a bit incomprehensible.
The Russians like their clients to do some "missile development"---even though the technology really all comes from Russia. It obscures what they are doing.
from Iran's Nuclear Option, Casemate, 2005, Al J. Venter, p. 306:
"Moscow continues to deny vehemently all direct U.S. accusations of government-sponsored nuclear and missile transfers to Iran that would be in violation of its international nonproliferation obligations. These assurances by Russia have, however, been repeatedly questioned.
"Further arguments appeared when reports surfaced in early 1998 that the Russian FSB was in fact coordinating clandestine missile technology transfers to the Iranians---allegations denied by Russian officials...Moscow has always declared that no infringements of the MCTR have been committed, but did admit the existence of 'individual contacts' between Iranian and Russian entities."
reminds of of that Nicholas Cage movie "Lord of War".
bttt
BTTT
GERTZ: And the other thing is there's this liberal notion of "multipolarity." It's big in France. It's big in Russia. It's big in China.
RUSH: What is it?
GERTZ: Multipolarity is this idea that you need to have several centers of power in the world, and the fact of the matter is we are it. We're the only superpower in the world today, and they don't like that, and they're working against us, and the reason that they're working against us -- that often translates into supporting our enemies, including with arms transfers, and --
RUSH: Okay, so when Madeleine Albright laments that we are the lone superpower and that this causes an imbalance, this is what she's talking about, multipolarity?
GERTZ: Exactly, and mind you, thank God we're the only superpower. The alternative would be: "Would we want China to be that or Russia?" Absolutely not.
RUSH: Well, then you've got to come up with some distorted concept of moral equivalence.
GERTZ: Yes, and it doesn't matter who's right or wrong to the multipolarity view. It's just the point is that stability requires that there be many centers of power. So that that's really at the core of the anti-Americanism of the French in particular and the Chinese as well. RUSH: Well, now, I really don't mean to be partisan with this, but I know that among conservatives that's not the view of the United States in the world, but it is the view of liberals. So is it safe to say the state department has been co-opted by liberal bureaucracy, not just the bureaucracy?
GERTZ: Yes, absolutely, there's no question, and that's true also for the intelligence community, as we're seeing this vociferous battling going on with the White House. You know, recently the Washington Post had an article complaining about how the new CIA director brought some Hill staffers. Of course they never complained about that when John Deutsch, the Clinton administration CIA director, brought over a number of Hill staffers when he took over the agency. So that's the problem is that they have a culturally liberal view, which is fundamentally anti-conservative, above all.
*******************************************************
So ya.....State Dept manuevers like a MIRV to cover Euro/Russkie/Chi-Com and Muslim geostrategic projection...which includes all things Military.
Add to this....The CFR [Council on Foreign Relations]...which slots world embassy's and main players both Rep and Dem in the Whitehouse....allong with State and other critical agencies.
A Few years back.....Pravda ran some opp eds about a Rift within the CFR.
It was sufficient to draw counter answer by NATO leaders....who then went silent afterwards.
Most of this is unlikely to ever hit mainstream media.....they will not touch it....[Maybe Cable...or programs like Rush Limbaugh]
If one follows Israeli politics.....their was the past scurry out the door after meetings to Phone Arafat or Sheik Yassin and warn them of what was going down.
so ya....Shimon the Vulture Perez....former Defence Minister Ben Eliezer betraying Israel via speed dial.
The same occurs inside U.S. via State and CFR to diplomatic mission or media.
"I see plans within plans.......I see House Harkonnen and House Atreides feuding" [Movie Dune]
You and I see things from the same perspective.
"RUSH: Okay, so when Madeleine Albright laments that we are the lone superpower and that this causes an imbalance, this is what she's talking about, multipolarity?"
The thing is, its like Suvorov said, when the GRU was recruiting traitors, they very often told people they were working for some other country or group---more palatable than the Soviets. So the people knew they were betraying the country, but not too badly.
As I see it, the Russians and Chinese are the only real games in town in the world today (opposing the US). The other Leftists are subordinate to the Russians primarily, though only the top echelons know that.
I don't even buy the Cuban-Russian rift---though obviously the Russians withdrew a lot of aid and the relationship changed.
The Chinese are separate, but much more tightly allied to Russia than people realize. I take Golitsyn's view, which is this. Stalin tried to dominate all Communist parties in the world , causing tremendous setbacks.
In 1957-60, there were a series of high-level conferences in Moscow of high-ranking representatives of all the communist parties in the world (ruling countries or not.) Stalinism was repudiated, once and for all. Good relationships were restored under a concept of flexibility and relative (or absolute, in the case of China) independence.
However, it was decided to maintain the illusion of the Sino-Soviet split to manipulate the West.
This is not speculation on Golitsyn's part. He was THERE---a high ranking member of the KGB who actually came up with some of the key ideas.
In 1961, he defected to the US with his family from Finland, where he was posted.
I believe the Russians, who created most modern terrorism in the 20th century, still run it.
N. Korea, by the way, is a Chinese puppet.
http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=23472
"The Arabic television channel Al Jazeera broadcast an audiotape on December 19, 2003, that was said to be from Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, the right hand man of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. ...Yet it could be that Russian intelligence knows exactly where he is and may even have regular contact with the elusive Egyptian.
Zawahiri as Prisoner
There are many accounts of Ayman al-Zawahiri published in the press. These stories cover Zawahiri's childhood and his relatives, his study of medicine, his connections to the Muslim Brotherhood, his involvement in the assassination of Egyptian President Anwar Sadat, his close relations with Osama bin Laden, and his role in major terrorist attacks against the United States. But there are few authors who mention that Zawahiri spent half a year in close contact with representatives of Russian intelligence while in their custody.
Significantly, these contacts led to a change in Zawahiri's political orientation. Long talks with Russian intelligence officers "forced a critical change in his lethal planning. ...America, not Egypt, became the target... Freed from Russian jail in May 1997, Dr. Zawahri found refuge in Afghanistan, yoking his fortunes to Mr. bin Laden. [Zawahiri's group] Egyptian Jihad, previously devoted to the narrow purpose of toppling secular rule in Egypt, became instead the biggest component of al Qaeda and a major agent of a global war against America. Dr. Zawahri became Mr. bin Laden's closest confidant and talent scout." [1]
"
(This is a small excerpt, see the article)
Actually, Golitsyn was a mid-level operative, not a high-ranking one. Golitsyn stated that Harold Wilson was recruited by the KGB when he had sex with Marcia Falkender. In fact, Vasily Mitrokhin (who was really a high-level operative) admitted that they did indeed try to recruit Wilson, but they actually failed. Even Jim Angleton started to wonder if Golitsyn was really all that kosher after three high-ranking Soviet defectors were turned away on Golitsyn's advice and then were executed as traitors by the Soviets - thus confirming they were genuine defectors. However, Golitsyn was not necessarily a nut. His livelihood and even his life depended on his unique usefulness to the CIA. Like many other defectors he lied to puff up his own importance. But he went too far. Basically, he said, "I am the only defector you can rely on. Anyone who defects after me is being sent by the KGB to discredit me." Doesn't that make people wonder if he was a reliable source? So when Nosenko defected, it became a pissing contest. Many people believed in Golitsyn and thought Nosenko was a fake, and vice versa. Several years
later the CIA declared officially that Nosenko was a genuine defector. In fact, I have heard that there were CIA analyists who felt that Golitsyn was actually a KGB mole.
It has evolved into a smorgasboard for them...as they have network...which has been laid down over decades and assisted by Emperor Clintonius.
so ya...the smorgasboard of World Corporate synergy.
everything from agents in country to U.S. Diplomatic overseas which liasons the corporate meet discretely....[Well hopefully discretely : ) ]
Zbigniew Brzezinski [CFR] and his tour de force work...
*The Grand Chessboard - American Primacy and Its Geostrategic Imperatives
The Division and control of Asia/Eurasia.
Not Gravel Tone [Henry Kissinger - CFR]'s.....version of the world and how to rule it.
On a Charlie Rose program a year or so back.....Kissinger comented to Rose that part of the go round in the Arab/Israeli wars was to show/display and prove to the Muslims the superiority of U.S. Weapons and relationship vs Russia and China.
Russia...have just recently risen from itspass out in the vomit after Reagen dropped them like a bare fisted dock fight,
see's them migrating back to weapons sales...with China re envigered aswell.
not helpfull when Treacherous France and Germany dable in back door sales and deciet.
so ya....proxy realities simmering on the stove.
State Dept rescuing Hamas/Hizbullah/Abu Mazen etc,
Sunni legacy from Saudi Arabia.
President Bush bought the world some pause after shaking out A.Q. Khan.
Hundreds of Cruise missiles...some which are nuclear ready in shell and avionics...just waiting for micro nuke warhead.
Israel is probably going to have many more gut wrenching turns aside from Iran.
If Democrats get back in to the Whitehouse.
Assembly lines from VX in Syria to possibly Egypt with the guts to circumvent signatory relationship with the U.S.and start playing seriously with their cruise missile arsenal.
Learning from Hamas and Hizbullah,...that if you play it right,
you are a Political process that garners respect...and can achieve more,
than simply relying on brute violence and extortion.
That Pharaoh Hosni Mubarrak has done little to nothing to mitigate terror flowing thru Sinai into Gaza.
That IAEA discovered signatory breaking Isotope in Egyptian facilities.
Margins that a level of treachery is allready in place.
No wonder Muslim Brotherhood is salivating at the prospect of becoming the next Gov in Egypt.
From Mussaraff in Pakistan to Mubarrak in Egypt.
How long can they hang on?
If I had the lyrics I'd post a line from P Diddy and Kim Jong Ill's rap video here (BOMB BOMB BOMB) Mad Tv. That was hilarious.
Thanks for posting that info Jacob.
so ya....inbetween a Madonna article at Pravda and some Gazprom boasting.
a subtle message appears...to NATO...to the U.S..
allong with the usuall....."Nyet!!....do not lecture me on Chechnyu"
Russia Reform Monitor No. 1331, December 8, 2005
American Foreign Policy Council, Washington, DC
http://www.afpc.orgDecember 7:
MOSCOW STICKS BY TEHRAN. Defense Minister Sergei Ivanov says the Kremlin is standing by its decision to sell Iran 29 Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile systems. "Whether some people like it or not, the contract will be fulfilled, with all international rules observed," Ivanov has said in comments carried by Interfax. "Russia is not breaching any international regulations. Iran is not subject to any international sanctions, and the contract is absolutely legitimate."
The planned sale, meanwhile, is causing considerable consternation in Washington. State Department spokesman Adam Ereli has disclosed that Undersecretary of State Nicholas Burns expressed the Bush administration's unhappiness with the sale during a recent visit to Moscow.
Copyright (c) 2005, American Foreign Policy Council
A friend said talk around his corner of the company was Clinton was turned at Oxford and given his control at Yale Law.
Nosenko v. Angleton figured in an Epstein work. Since that exercise Gerald Posner was given one of the handful of interviews with Nosenko to hype the former's 1993 Case Closed itself deconstructed by Harold Weisberg's 1994 Case Open. Posner trotted out by Mike Wallace for the latter's 60 Minutes hatchet job on Christopher Ruddy author of The Strange Death of Vincent Foster, Free Press/Simon & Schuster, 1997.
Clinton no doubt covered for Wen Ho Lee [Notra Trulock, Code Name Kindred Spirit] and facilitated insertion of John Huang.
Bill Richardson pulled out of NM 3d District 1997 is a continuing part of the Clinton series of 5-Year Plans.
Madeleine Albright eschewing American exceptionalism and pooh-poohing the stained dress.
A congressman who voted for all four articles of impeachment told me the opposition said in its conferences, "Make it about sex; don't let them make the impeachment about the treason."
And the NM Senator Bingaman [wife Anne persecuted Bill Gates then took record two million for six months' lobbying FCC on behalf of Global Crossings whose sale netted Terry MacAuliffe eighteen million and made that friend of PLAN HWL Li Ka-shing a valuable asset indeed] seated Charlie Trie on his Commission, Trie who would author the Dear President Get Out of the Strait ultimatum.
Nothing more nor less than treason. I read the noose today oh boy.
Thank you very much for your excellent post.
"everything from agents in country to U.S. Diplomatic overseas which liasons the corporate meet discretely....[Well hopefully discretely : ) ]"
I believe the State Department has fallen under the control of enemies of the US---Dangerous Diplomacy, How the State Department Threatens America's Security, by Joel Mowbray, 2003.
"On a Charlie Rose program a year or so back.....Kissinger comented to Rose that part of the go round in the Arab/Israeli wars was to show/display and prove to the Muslims the superiority of U.S. Weapons and relationship vs Russia and China."
Thanks for that nugget.
"Russia...have just recently risen from itspass out in the vomit after Reagen dropped them like a bare fisted dock fight,
see's them migrating back to weapons sales...with China re envigered aswell."
From Iran’s Nuclear Option, A.J. Ventnor, 2005, p. 304
"Especially due to the worldwide decline in demand on the world’s armaments’ markets and the ongoing decline of the Russian military-industrial complex, Moscow feels compelled to develop relations with such current or prospective buyers of cost-effective Russian weapons systems as Iran, China, India, or Syria. In other words, while Russia has become the largest exporter of conventional arms since 2001 (responsible for 36 percent of all global arms transfers in 2002), [I’ll provide footnote on request] most of the armaments are, technologically speaking, relatively unsophisticated."
"If Democrats get back in to the Whitehouse.
Assembly lines from VX in Syria to possibly Egypt with the guts to circumvent signatory relationship with the U.S.and start playing seriously with their cruise missile arsenal.""
True. Don't forget how the Dems will be out to destroy our freedoms here at home.
"In fact, I have heard that there were CIA analyists who felt that Golitsyn was actually a KGB mole."
This information tells us nothing. Golitsyn claimed there were moles in the CIA. If so, of course these moles would put out this story. Either way, this story had to surface.
You and I disagree on Golitsyn. I can't "make the case" of my argument, because it hinges on a combination of things I have been reading for decades.
All I can really say is this. I have read numerous Suvorov books (GRU defector to Britain), the Pacepa book (head of Romainian KGB, defected to US, and the 2 Golitzen books.
Together, they paint a single coherent picture which I am sure is true.
"From Mussaraff in Pakistan to Mubarrak in Egypt.
How long can they hang on?"
Don't know. There are "margin plays" like that and "key plays" like Israel.
One thing I've been thinking on Iraq (which will earn my a lot of undying hatred on the boards here. Can't blame people for it, but I have to say what I think (usually).
The Kurds are real allies of the US. They have effectively policed their own area and kept it clean under bad circumstances.
If Iraq falls, we should establish and recognize an independent Kurdistan. Turkey has already gone sour as an ally. Just establish Limited Kurdistan in current, inside Iraq borders, with a formal renouncement by them of ambitions for expanison into Turkey or Syria (where the true ethnic nation would also lie). Put a division of Marines in, build 3 big airbases, and let the whole of Turkey and the Middle East attack if they want to 9which they wouldn't). Screw world opinion. It'd be a 2nd solid Middle East ally. Change dynamics considerably.
Create our own UN to approve it and withdraw from the other.
Sometimes...when I consider Gelb or Kissingers coment,...I'm wondering if both forsee trouble....as the backing camps of Sunni/Shia would allow Iraq to slide away into chaos to keep to their Religious imperative undefiled...or something Insane like that.
How does the U.S. satisfy these malcontents who brood endlessly?
"Sometimes...when I consider Gelb or Kissingers coment,...I'm wondering if both forsee trouble....as the backing camps of Sunni/Shia would allow Iraq to slide away into chaos to keep to their Religious imperative undefiled...or something Insane like that."
It takes no great foresight to see possible disaster in Iraq. I hope the current Iraqi government succeeds...but if they don't, the fact is that creating a Kurdish state would rescue a fine group of people and serve our interests.
Realistically, I don't imagine US policymakers being bold enough to make such a move. In the event of an "Iraqi slide" into a pro-Iranian state, I suspect the US will remain on the sidelines.
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