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AP Poll: Most Say Torture OK in Rare Cases
AP via Tampa Bay Online ^ | Dec 6 2005 | WILL LESTER

Posted on 12/06/2005 1:41:37 PM PST by Ben Mugged

Most Americans and a majority of people in Britain, France and South Korea say torturing terrorism suspects is justified at least in rare instances, according to AP-Ipsos polling.

The United States has drawn criticism from human rights groups and many governments, especially in Europe, for its treatment of terror suspects. President Bush and other top officials have said the U.S. does not torture, but some suspects in American custody have alleged they were victims of severe mistreatment.

The polling, in the United States and eight of its closest allies, found that in Canada, Mexico and Germany people are divided on whether torture is ever justified. Most people opposed torture under any circumstances in Spain and Italy.

"I don't think we should go out and string everybody up by their thumbs until somebody talks. But if there is definitely a good reason to get an answer, we should do whatever it takes," said Billy Adams, a retiree from Tomball, Texas.

In America, 61 percent of those surveyed agreed torture is justified at least on rare occasions. Almost nine in 10 in South Korea and just over half in France and Britain felt that way.

(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: confused; polls; torture
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Bet this doesn't get a lot of MSM coverage......
1 posted on 12/06/2005 1:41:37 PM PST by Ben Mugged
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To: Ben Mugged

Just put'em in solitary....they'll talk..you don't need to torture them, you dumb axes.


2 posted on 12/06/2005 1:43:50 PM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: Ben Mugged

Not suprising. We are a mean people.

parsy, the disgusted.


3 posted on 12/06/2005 1:44:17 PM PST by parsifal
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To: Ben Mugged
AP Poll: Most Say Torture OK in Rare Cases

If anyone can listen to Hillary's voice, then torture is a cakewalk.

4 posted on 12/06/2005 1:44:28 PM PST by beyond the sea (Murtha: Redeployment - What .......Surrender? // “Victory is not a strategy”)
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To: Ben Mugged

Hmm. I have no problems with torture of criminals, as well, but it must be prescribed by a judge.


5 posted on 12/06/2005 1:45:15 PM PST by ConservativeMind
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To: Ben Mugged

I wish they would tell us what 'torture' they are doing; are we talking sleep deprivation/drugs or tearing out thumbnails


6 posted on 12/06/2005 1:49:11 PM PST by SF Republican
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To: Ben Mugged

Torture is an instrument of necessity, not consensus, which waxes and wanes.
After a couple more 9/11's, everyone would support it. The problem is that the next 9/11 may look more like Hiroshima, and our government can't afford to wait.


7 posted on 12/06/2005 1:57:15 PM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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To: Ben Mugged

It seems to me that if the people support it, then there is no reason to pussyfoot around and open prisons in Romania.

Change the federal law that prohibits it, close GTMO, and fly the intended victims right into the States.

I would have been interested to see the numbers for Germany.

It doesn't surprise me that the Italians and Spanish are strongly opposed to torture under all circumstances, while majorities of the French and British support it when necessary. I believe that I saw death penalty statistics that were similar, with the Southern Europeans outright opposing it, and majorities of the British and French both supporting it.

I would be interested in seeing the statistics for Germany.


8 posted on 12/06/2005 1:58:09 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: ConservativeMind

"I have no problems with torture of criminals, as well, but it must be prescribed by a judge."

You're kidding, right? This is sarcasm, right? Like a judge has any idea whatsoever of the real world.


10 posted on 12/06/2005 2:04:01 PM PST by hsalaw
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To: SF Republican
I wish they would tell us what 'torture' they are doing

Naked pictures of Bella Abzug

11 posted on 12/06/2005 2:04:17 PM PST by Sociopathocracy (Real men know the significance of the following numbers: 383, 426 and 440.)
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To: Spok
Nuke 9/11 is what is driving this need for flexibility on this issue. No one in the administration wants to face the consequences of not having done everything possible to stop nuke terror and the slaughter of millions. The reality of how very close we have come to this frames the administration's position, but they have, to their credit, not used this reasoning publicly, hoping that thinking people understand it anyway.

Having said that, implementing and carrying out aggressive interrogation is tricky and has major PR implications that can swing the many negative ways, as well as the basic issue of surrending the moral high ground. Condi was hinting at this. Supervised and stepped procedures and great caution should be used in applying force to the most uncooperative and high value suspects.
12 posted on 12/06/2005 2:18:32 PM PST by Wiseghy (Discontent is the want of self-reliance: it is infirmity of will. – Ralph Waldo Emerson)
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To: Ben Mugged
AP Poll: Most Say Torture OK in Rare Cases

I think it should be well done myself.

13 posted on 12/06/2005 2:21:54 PM PST by Paleo Conservative (Hey hey ho ho Andy Heyward's got to go!)
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To: Wiseghy

And I think we must do some things in private which we deny in public.


14 posted on 12/06/2005 2:21:55 PM PST by Spok (Est omnis de civilitate.)
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To: Ben Mugged

AP Poll: Most Say Torture OK in Rare Cases........Mel Gibson to make million dollar movie.......


15 posted on 12/06/2005 2:32:45 PM PST by maestro
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To: Ben Mugged
So our elected Republican "leaders" capitulate to who? Us? (nope) The French? (nope) The British? (nope again) The South Koreans? (bzzzz! 'wrong answer, Hahns'!)

Our Republicans capitulate to only the Democrats.

16 posted on 12/06/2005 4:17:27 PM PST by manwiththehands ("Attack (Democrats) until they stop twitching and then attack some more." -J. Peter Mulhern)
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To: Ben Mugged

To date I have not heard a single allegation that any US forces tortured anyone.

Nothing that rises above the level of a fraternity initiation has been alleged.


17 posted on 12/06/2005 5:26:14 PM PST by festus (The constitution may be flawed but its a whole lot better than what we have now.)
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To: Vicomte13
Change the federal law that prohibits it

Unnecessary. "Illegal" is not a synonym for "impossible".

18 posted on 12/07/2005 1:07:20 PM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: steve-b

"Change the federal law that prohibits it"

"Unnecessary. 'Illegal' is not a synonym for 'impossible'."

True, but you still need to change the law. Because if you do not, whoever commits the torture is guilty of a felony and can be prosecuted for it. If the victim dies, the torturer, whether acting from necessity or not, is guilty of premeditated first degree murder under any state or federal law, and can be prosecuted just about anywhere, for the rest of his life. There are plenty of people who oppose torture so adamantly that if you simply allow government agents to torture on a "necessity" basis, but without giving them legal immunity for doing it, those agents will be exposed to prosecution and blackmail by enemies of torture for the rest of their lives, and if they ever come into the possession of such authorities, there is no law that can protect them.

Massachussetts, for example, could arrest and prosecute a military person passing through the Commonwealth, were Massachussetts state law to prohibit torture and allow prosecution in Massachussetts regardless of where the crime was committed. And if torture were not legal by a superseding US law, the US government would have no jurisdiction at all to remove its servicemen from Massachussetts prisons.

Also, having a law that says one thing, but allowing a whole secret society of torturers to exist, above the law, in government is another thing. A bad one. It sets a clear precedent. If THAT can be justified by a loose and unspecified doctrine of necessity, so can anything else.

The laws need to be clear, and enforced.


19 posted on 12/07/2005 1:38:07 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13
True, but you still need to change the law. Because if you do not, whoever commits the torture is guilty of a felony and can be prosecuted for it.

So? You do what you gotta do, and take the consequences. That's the only way to limit it to cases of true dire necessity.

...if you simply allow government agents to torture on a "necessity" basis, but without giving them legal immunity for doing it....

Since I reject any notion of legal immunity, this argument is irrelevant.

...allowing a whole secret society of torturers to exist, above the law, in government is another thing...

Who said anything about them being above the law? If somebody believes that it's genuinely necessary to do something illegal, then the subsequent trial and punishment is simply part of the price, just like the risk of disfigurement and death is part of the price of defending the nation in more conventional ways.

20 posted on 12/07/2005 1:48:07 PM PST by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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