Russia sells anti-missile systems to Iran (per agreement with Al Gore)

AFP via Babelfish translation | December 2, 2005

[Tailgunner Joe]

bump

[Spktyr]

That's what we have Predators armed with Hellfires for.

And if it came down to it, saturate the bloody things with cruise missiles used as decoys, THEN slam them with the real strike aircraft. Also, these things only have about 8 rounds apiece, then they have to spend at least an hour being reloaded by a dedicated maintenance truck with a crane. So, 8 shots max, and then they're toast.

I'm not worried about giving this tactic away, because if the operators ignore the "decoys", they're not decoys any more - since they're still armed. Either way, they go ka-BOOOM. Ooops.


The only problem I see here is that this missile is supposed to go about 3060 kph, and HARM tops out at "only" 2287 kph. Could be nasty if it ever fires on a manned plane. A Predator coming in at tree-top height with a Hellfire will still ruin its day - the system apparently still has a 'hard' floor of 10 meters. And they sacrificed range for speed - 6km max range/altitude? That's 20,000 feet, give or take. Load up the B-52s with HARMs (48km-plus range) and fly them around at 50K (service ceiling) and rain down HARMs on the idiots all day long.

[wotan]

"Iran will defend itself against the United States and Israel with the Russian systems Tor M-1", titrated Vedomosti with the one.

titrated?

[Mad Mark]

Thats good tactical thinking, send in slow flying cruise missiles as decoys & then hit them with aircraft. I was thinking the same scenario & so was every other Russian air defense adviser, currently working closely in joint defense with the Iranian air defense unit.

Never the less good thinking, but your not revealing any secret tactical breakthrough...

Don't worry these future operators & their commanders will have gone through every possible strike scenario.

HARM is an anti radar missile, a TOR system is a air defense system on a tank chassis. It like using a firecracker against it.

[Mad Mark]

Dont forget, the TOR system most likely will have a defensive countermeasures chaff, against radar seeking missiles like HARM.

[Spktyr]

Except it doesn't matter - if you jam a HARM, it just loiters around in the area until you turn your radar on, then it comes and finds you. Remember, HARM is a High-speed Anti-Radiation Missile - it homes in on enemy radar and radio transmissions. And if you turn off your radar, you can't guide the missiles.

HARM also has a wonderful feature where if it does get a solid lock on a stationary-type radar and then gets jammed or the radar turns off, it flies to the place where it last saw the radar and explodes.

[IrishCatholic]

bookmark for later printing.

[Tarpon]

Gonna be one busy little system trying to take care of a couple of B-2 loads. The Russian story reads like a fairy tale from the old Soviet propaganda machine.

I wonder how it works on stealth cruise missiles? Or incoming ballistic nuclear missiles?

[rbosque]

You are correct on the missiles. I remember when we went after Qaddafi duck and our missiles did just that!

[Spktyr]

Yup, the guys in the EF-111 Spark Varks and the few remaining F-4 Wild Weasel birds really liked them. The Soviets and Europeans that sold Qaddafi his air defense gear were somewhat less enthused.

I still haven't seen a really good system to defeat a HARM strike. Maybe combine the radar truck with a point defense system of some kind? Even if you did that, it should be relatively easy to saturate such a system, since these systems are too few in number to deploy in heavy layered coverage.

[rbosque]

I had heard that in Kosovo, those guys had rigged microwave ovens to turn on with the doors opened to fool the missiles but I'm not sure.

[Red6]

Actually HARM has various modes and it will behave differently depending on the threat. HARM can even prioritize targets.

Newer HARMs also have GPS and even if the enemy shuts their radar off it will continue to track fairly precisely towards the target using the last known location.

Sometimes HARM is fired blind (That's a mode it can be set for) and then it goes up up and away into the bososphere, loitering for a very long time and just waiting for Buba to turn his radar on. The HARM in this case is loitering over his head somewhere and as soon as he turns his radar on, Mr. HARM will show him what a 150 pound blast frag warhead can do.

HARM in reality is also not alone. There are other systems that are added to the mix. HARM today is simply popularly known.