Ban on Homosexual Men From (Catholic) Priesthood Was Always in Place - Decision from 810 AD Cited

LifeSite ^ | November 30, 2005

[NYer]

Several Vatican documents and letters over the years have said gays or men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, regardless of whether they can remain celibate.

A Feb. 2, 1961, Vatican document, “Instruction on the Careful Selection and Training of Candidates for the States of Perfection and Sacred Orders,” made clear homosexuals should be barred from the priesthood.

“(Advancement) to religious vows and ordination should be barred to those who are afflicted with evil tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty, since for them the common life and the priestly ministry would constitute serious dangers,” said the document from the then-Vatican’s congregation for religious.

A 1997 letter from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments says “admission may not take place if there exists a prudent doubt regarding the candidate’s suitability.” It does not specify that homosexuality constitutes a “prudent doubt,” but an American official at the Vatican, the Rev. Andrew Baker, has suggested in an article in the Jesuit magazine America that it does.

In 2002, Cardinal Jorge Arturo Medina Estevez, then-prefect for the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, advised against allowing gays in the priesthood in a letter that was published in the congregation’s publication Notitiae.

The Vatican press office announced in November 2002, at the height of the U.S. clergy sex abuse scandal, that the Congregation for Catholic Education was drawing up guidelines for accepting candidates for the priesthood that would address the question of whether gays should be barred.

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[Knitting A Conundrum]

I posted this earlier this morning, but Moderator, please remove my posting, cause NYer has a much better ping list for this story.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1531148/posts

[frogjerk]

When questioned as to whether the Church might be accused of "homophobia," the French psychologist reacted quickly. The term "homophobia," he said, is "a slogan of intimidation." The Instruction insists on respectful treatment of homosexual persons, he pointed out; the Vatican is not encouraging or condoning hatred for those who suffer same-sex impulses.

God Bless this Jesuit!

[IMRight]

Several Vatican documents and letters over the years have said gays or men with homosexual tendencies should not be ordained, regardless of whether they can remain celibate.

That's a slight misstatement. One who remains celibate doesn't even fall into the restriction.

Remember that the Church differentiates between the concupiscent desire (this sin that dwells within me that is not my sin" as Paul puts it) and sinful behavior. "Tendencies to homosexuality or pederasty" likely refers to actual behavior, not to the inclination to commit a particular kind of sin. In "the world", you're "gay" just from who you are attracted to. In the church, that's just a sinful inclination that you are given to conquer - as we all have.

[Mulch]

When questioned as to whether the Church might be accused of "homophobia," the French psychologist reacted quickly. The term "homophobia," he said, is "a slogan of intimidation."

Also used as a rhetorical device to shift the psychological problem away from themselves.

[Para-Ord.45]

Never liked the word homophobia.

Homo: homosapien

Phobia: an irrational fear

I fear homosapiens ?

I don`t fear perverts. It`s a natural feeling of disgust and revulsion.They cannot legislate against that.

[Redbob]

A "phobia" is defined as an irrational or illogical fear.

What is the suffix connoting a perfectly rational dislike?

(Merriam-Webster Online defines "phobe" as "one fearing or averse to (something specified) e.g.,Francophobe " - I love their example!)

[FormerLib]

I was recently informed about how the left maintains that regarding homosexual acts as sins was an invention of the church in Medieval times. Their theories were laughable, of course, but it appears that many of them actually believe this nonsensical propaganda.

[eastsider]

The term "homophobia," he said, is "a slogan of intimidation."

There's hope for the Jebbies yet.

[FormerLib]

Why don't they just "ban" the high tide while they're at it...?

I believe you'll find that "the high tide" is not eligible to serve in the Roman Catholic priesthood either.

[bobsatwork]

Never liked the word homophobia. Homo: homosapien .....It's even crazier. The "homo" is from the Greek meaning "the same" (homogenized). So we have irrational fear of the same.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

A person who doesn't have sex but perhaps self-identifies as a gay man, and fantasizes regularly about sex with men or teenagers is not totally innocent, especially when the person indulges himself with it, as opposed to fighting it.

I lived celibate for over 15 years before I got married. Certainly didn't mean I was free of sexual sin or desire or want, but it does give me something of an idea of what long term celibacy feels like. It is not an easy lifestyle, and choices have to be made.

One of the things needful to realize is it's not good to make excuses for sinful behavior, even if it's not acted out in great measure. If a person thinks "This must be all right because this is how God made me" and thus starts to find reasons to disagree with the hard core teachings of the Church on faith and morals, then it's gone beyond sexual sin into a form of rebellion. It is no doubt up to the spiritual director of each seminarian to discern what is going on.

This is why Archbishop Chaput said that each person needs to be judged on a case by case basis.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

exactly.

We're not talking about banning people with homosexual leanings from life. We're talking about who is suitable, in the eyes of the Church, to be a priest, which is s privilege, not a right.

[x5452]

I hope that this isn't becoming something where everyone says 'We're already doing this' and ignores the document.

I think it's clear that over the years NOT everyone has been doing this.

Also I wonder, is there any kind of 'two adult rule' to ensure children are not left in the care of a potentially unscrupulous individual?

[Last Dakotan]

Good to see some good Jesuits are still around. I remember many from my college days in the 80's. They will need to repopulate the order

[NYer]

They will need to repopulate the order

The Dominicans and Conventual Franciscans as well. It will happen ... God willing in our lifetime.

[IMRight]

A person who doesn't have sex but perhaps self-identifies as a gay man, and fantasizes regularly about sex with men or teenagers is not totally innocent, especially when the person indulges himself with it, as opposed to fighting it.

Certainly.... but that's not the example I gave.

Your examples where the individual commits other actual sins are beside the point. The inclination (or "bent") toward sin is not, in itself, your sin. We are all born with a "bent" toward sin that we must struggle against. If mine happens to be gambling the food money each month and not homosexual sex - that's irrelevant. The question is whether the Holy Spirit is active in my life and guides my behavior or whether my "bent" does. A man who does NOT indulge in his "bent" is seeking the Lord's will regardless of WHAT the particular sin he's combating is.

The difference is that the Church needs must take a stand in one area over another because "the world" tries to tell us that this particular sin is not a sin at all... but rather just the way God wants you to be. To some extent it is that way with all sin... but homosexual behavior is defended far more stridently.

[B.O. Plenty]

.......ensure children are not left in the care of a potentially unscrupulous individual?

The question of their sexuality is never addressed to a potential priest???