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To: narby

And a town of 10 that adds 10 people in a decade has a 100% growth rate.

DFW added 1.2 million 1990-2000 (latest census count), Phoenix added 1 million.

http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab01.txt

Neither's growth was influenced much by whether or not some of their roads were tollways. Oklahoma's minimal growth compared to Dallas and Phoenix has little to do with tollways. I would recommend you a basic textbook on Economic Development 101.

As to the Riverside to Orange County tollway, it was never intended to eliminate congestion from the free lanes. With nearly 300,000 cars a day using that route (and growing) it is impossible to build enough free lanes to move rush hour at 55mph. The toll lanes were just a way to build more lanes sooner, and to offer a paid option of faster speeds. Since there isn't enough room for enough lanes for everyone, those willing to pay for it get the option of a 55mph bypass (the toll lanes.) As more people try to use it and the speed goes down, the price goes up until the speeds are back to 55 mph. When capacity is finite, capitalism controls it through personal choices. Tollways are pure capitalism when there are free(but slower) alternatives.


24 posted on 11/30/2005 4:25:38 PM PST by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Diddle E. Squat
DFW added 1.2 million 1990-2000 (latest census count), Phoenix added 1 million.

In the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics:

Your link claims that Dallas added 1,184,519 people. How'd you get 1.2 million out of that? A bit of a rounding error perhaps?

Your link claims a 29.2% growth for Dallas, 45.3% for Phoenix. With even more freeways under construction in Phoenix, and freeways less than 10 years old already scheduled for widening, my bet is on Phoenix to kick Dallas' @ss in a very short period of time. Probably less than 10 years.

As to the Riverside to Orange County tollway, it was never intended to eliminate congestion from the free lanes.

Of course not. What fool would pay money to drive just as fast as the free lanes? The very business model of the toll roads rely on the fact that free lanes will be kept jammed. Toll road developers depend on government to ensure jammed free roads, and will lobby to make it happen (an easy choice for the politician, simply do nothing and claim impotence). Jammed free roads stifle economic development, which brings in less tax money, and makes free roads even harder to build.

That's economics 101.

With nearly 300,000 cars a day using that route (and growing) it is impossible to build enough free lanes to move rush hour at 55mph.

This is America. Nothing is impossible. Buy up the houses in Anaheim Hills and build 1000 lanes of freeway. Seriously, at some point the ratio of roadway vs. living space reaches a point where no roadway will ever be full. The fact that politicians, no doubt receiving money from toll road developers whine "the road fairy is dead", and that's the end of it unless the people educate themselves and demand decent roads.

Tollways are pure capitalism when there are free(but slower) alternatives.

Capitalism is best served when people have as few obstacles and costs as possible to travel to places of business. Paying tolls discourages travel, and ALL travel operates the economy, even if you just buy gas.

That's economics 101.

The libertarian model of private roads will stifle economic growth. Roads are natural monopolies, because there is no real way for two companies to compete. Should two companies build parallel toll roads, they will compete to the point that one goes out of business, the other will buy the bankrupt roadway, and proceed to charge anything they want. This will necessitate government regulation (while the libertarians THOUGHT private roadways would end government participation in roads - LOL). Government toll road regulation will provide opportunities for corruption, as is now the case in electric utilities and others.

Toll Roads are bad medicine.

Which toll road developer do you work for?

26 posted on 12/01/2005 8:31:20 AM PST by narby (Hillary! The Wicked Witch of the Left)
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