Posted on 11/30/2005 8:27:51 AM PST by Tolerance Sucks Rocks
WESLACO, Texas - With federal funding for the I-69 superhighway from the Texas-Mexico border to Canada dead for now, Texas and other states are looking for another route to fund the corridor, a state transportation official said Tuesday.
Mario Jorge of the Texas Department of Transportation sought to allay the concerns of the Rio Grande Valley Mobility Task Force, a group of elected officials and business leaders who lobby for funding for the highway - raised when Texas Transportation Commissioner Ted Houghton said recently that "I-69 is dead in the state of Texas. The road fairy has been shot."
"Yeah, we do not have the federal dollars to build the 69 corridor in its entirety," Jorge said. "From the Texas standpoint, we're proceeding as we have been."
Jorge said that Gov. Rick Perry's 2002 proposal for a 4,000-mile network of tollroads whose $175 billion price tag would be covered by private money was one alternative. Other states along the 1,600-mile route would have to find funding for their portions as well.
Some have protested the idea of the trans-Texas corridor, fearing farmers and ranchers along the route would be forced to sell their land.
Deep South Texas leaders say it is shameful a region with more than a million people and a burgeoning post-NAFTA economy does not have nearby access to an interstate freeway. They have been incensed since Houghton's comment, made at a luncheon on Nov. 8, alerted them that the funding had dried up.
"The project is not dead and it should not be because it's important to the border," state Rep. Juan Escobar, D-Kingsville, said Tuesday.
(Excerpt) Read more at dfw.com ...
I'm not about to attempt any real analysis, but I'd bet money that the increased growth of freeways vs. stagnant growth of toll ways would more than pay for additional roads.
By definition, the people pay for the roads either way. The only difference is where the money is collected. You can argue that taxes take disproportionately from one group or another for roads. But no one, NO ONE, is not benefited by good roads. Even those without a car benefit by cheaper goods and better jobs provided by good roads.
My hatred of toll roads is anecdotal. I saw how the center median of the California 91 freeway was sold to a private developer for a toll road, so the government could collect taxes from it. The people refused to use it in the numbers that would prevent the free lanes of the 91 from becoming jammed, and the government was forced to buy it back.
I've seen the total non-development along the turnpikes of Oklahoma that have been in place up to 50 years. In comparison Oklahoma freeways have wall to wall development.
Drive the Will Rogers turnpike to the state border where it turns into freeway. Note the desolation along the turnpike, vs instant capitalism at the freeway start.
I don't know where you got your numbers from, but I do know that there are lies, damn lies, and statistics. I don't believe your numbers, based on what I've observed in many different parts of the country over the last 50 years.
Education? Guess what the STATE LOTTERY was approved for? Do you think that's where the profits go? *chuckle*
I'm not certain that 100% of the NTTA receipts are reinvested in roads, but am willing to bet that that is the case.
I'll bet your wrong. No pol has ever let a good tax pass him/her by ....without dipping their fingers in the till.
However that now barely covers the maintenance costs, because while project costs rise with inflation, the gas tax stays a constant amount, and the percentage of road construction costs paid for by federal dollars has decreased.
That's not true in the way you are projecting it. Where in your stats does the auto registration fees for road tax figure in? Just Dallas alone would be paying 3+mil x 8 bucks or more each. (not counting most people have more than one vehicle per household) That's quite a chunk of change to fill in pot holes.
How about we quit sending the tax money to DC? Let's just collect the tax and funnel 100% of it directly to TexDOT.
Oh wait, the fed's could not threaten us with witholding funds in order to enforce b.s. laws.
Perhaps it is time...
And a town of 10 that adds 10 people in a decade has a 100% growth rate.
DFW added 1.2 million 1990-2000 (latest census count), Phoenix added 1 million.
http://www.census.gov/population/cen2000/phc-t3/tab01.txt
Neither's growth was influenced much by whether or not some of their roads were tollways. Oklahoma's minimal growth compared to Dallas and Phoenix has little to do with tollways. I would recommend you a basic textbook on Economic Development 101.
As to the Riverside to Orange County tollway, it was never intended to eliminate congestion from the free lanes. With nearly 300,000 cars a day using that route (and growing) it is impossible to build enough free lanes to move rush hour at 55mph. The toll lanes were just a way to build more lanes sooner, and to offer a paid option of faster speeds. Since there isn't enough room for enough lanes for everyone, those willing to pay for it get the option of a 55mph bypass (the toll lanes.) As more people try to use it and the speed goes down, the price goes up until the speeds are back to 55 mph. When capacity is finite, capitalism controls it through personal choices. Tollways are pure capitalism when there are free(but slower) alternatives.
The government bought the road back because of a no-compete clause that prevented them from adding lanes or new interchanges to the 91 freeway.
In the category of lies, damn lies, and statistics:
Your link claims that Dallas added 1,184,519 people. How'd you get 1.2 million out of that? A bit of a rounding error perhaps?
Your link claims a 29.2% growth for Dallas, 45.3% for Phoenix. With even more freeways under construction in Phoenix, and freeways less than 10 years old already scheduled for widening, my bet is on Phoenix to kick Dallas' @ss in a very short period of time. Probably less than 10 years.
As to the Riverside to Orange County tollway, it was never intended to eliminate congestion from the free lanes.
Of course not. What fool would pay money to drive just as fast as the free lanes? The very business model of the toll roads rely on the fact that free lanes will be kept jammed. Toll road developers depend on government to ensure jammed free roads, and will lobby to make it happen (an easy choice for the politician, simply do nothing and claim impotence). Jammed free roads stifle economic development, which brings in less tax money, and makes free roads even harder to build.
That's economics 101.
With nearly 300,000 cars a day using that route (and growing) it is impossible to build enough free lanes to move rush hour at 55mph.
This is America. Nothing is impossible. Buy up the houses in Anaheim Hills and build 1000 lanes of freeway. Seriously, at some point the ratio of roadway vs. living space reaches a point where no roadway will ever be full. The fact that politicians, no doubt receiving money from toll road developers whine "the road fairy is dead", and that's the end of it unless the people educate themselves and demand decent roads.
Tollways are pure capitalism when there are free(but slower) alternatives.
Capitalism is best served when people have as few obstacles and costs as possible to travel to places of business. Paying tolls discourages travel, and ALL travel operates the economy, even if you just buy gas.
That's economics 101.
The libertarian model of private roads will stifle economic growth. Roads are natural monopolies, because there is no real way for two companies to compete. Should two companies build parallel toll roads, they will compete to the point that one goes out of business, the other will buy the bankrupt roadway, and proceed to charge anything they want. This will necessitate government regulation (while the libertarians THOUGHT private roadways would end government participation in roads - LOL). Government toll road regulation will provide opportunities for corruption, as is now the case in electric utilities and others.
Toll Roads are bad medicine.
Which toll road developer do you work for?
And why did they want to add lanes? Because the free roadway was jammed. The free roadway was jammed because the toll lanes did not carry as many vehicles as they would had they been free. The extra cars that free lanes would have carried would have relieved at least some of the congestion on the rest of the freeway.
Same as in Jew Jersey, where the government got smart and eliminated HOV lanes, because they recognized that relieving the whole freeway actually did more good environmentally than the vain attempt to compel people to carpool.
I am actually doing work on this project. Here is the status web site for more info:
http://www.i69info.com/state.html
bump
What do you propose to fund the needed roads, which appear to be too expensive to fund with the present gas tax (Texas: $0.20; Federal: 0.92 x $0.20 gasoline/$0.24 diesel)? I would personally accept an increase in the gas tax, but I suspect it would be self-defeating if it had to be raised 1.00/gallon or some such. People would look for every excuse not to drive.
Same way Arizona funds roads. Not that I know how they do that. I only know that there is zero talk of toll roads, because the last time they proposed such a thing for the Red Mountain fwy out Mesa way there was much wailing and knashing of teeth.
Assuming you built identical toll and free roads, except for toll equipment, there's no reason they should cost any different as long as the government roads didn't have too many idiotic construction rules. Perhaps some difference because free roads will have more off-ramps, but all of those should pay for themselves with tax money from businesses built right there. Toll roads would have additional expense from toll collection machinery and billing, and because they carry less traffic, they could actually cost more for the drivers per mile than higher density free roads.
Building roads from tax money does allow moving the cost disproportionately from one group to another, but that just means that someone must ride herd on the politicians to prevent corruption.
Another issue, if roads are built in Texas from gas and vehicle taxes, when you drive toll roads you're paying for the free roads AND the toll road. Bend over, here it comes.
What do you propose to fund the needed roads, which appear to be too expensive to fund with the present gas tax (Texas: $0.20; Federal: 0.92 x $0.20 gasoline/$0.24 diesel)?
How about South Texas build a highway that links up with an existing interstate???
I think it should be privatized and competition allowed.
Yes---But he,s got a better enterprise already in the making.He,ll take a fat cat position with this contractor Cintra Zachary who'll build and maintain this toll road and reap much revenue.He's already got his man in position,Mario Jorge!!!
Yes---But he,s got a better enterprise already in the making.He,ll take a fat cat position with this contractor Cintra Zachary who'll build and maintain this toll road and reap much revenue.He's already got his man in position,Mario Jorge!!!
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