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Bush visit [Tucson] highlights GOP rifts on border
The Arizona Daily Star ^ | 11.27.2005 | Mitch Tobin

Posted on 11/27/2005 6:17:30 AM PST by Borax Queen

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To: Dane
Which raises the cost of the product or service.

Price is determined by supply and demand.

I'll never understand your alls hatred at small businesses that produce good products and services. It's almost akin to the animus liberal democrats have toward business.

I don't hate business. In fact there is nothing better than free unmanipulated markets to properly allocate goods and services. I hate artifical market manipulation.

21 posted on 11/27/2005 6:50:04 AM PST by NeoCaveman (I'm not without a tagline, I merely have a deferred tagline)
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To: dubyaismypresident
And it's that kind of market manipulation, that I abhor. Actually, I abhor any market manipulation.

What market manipulation, it's actually called letting the invisible hand of the market work it's magic.

22 posted on 11/27/2005 6:50:42 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: LadyofShalott

Ping.


23 posted on 11/27/2005 6:51:02 AM PST by Borax Queen
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To: joeystoy
What amount of pay is going to motivate a lard-assed welfare parasite to go out and pick grapes?

If that price is too high, and the government won't reduce welfare benefits then automate the process.

If labor costs are too high, then employ labor saving capital, aka machines.

24 posted on 11/27/2005 6:52:00 AM PST by NeoCaveman (I'm not without a tagline, I merely have a deferred tagline)
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To: AgThorn
Who exactly are these businesses and what are the jobs that 'need' foreign employees?

agriculture, janitorial services, trophy wives and career gals who want nannies, temporary construction help.

Are there US citizens who want to work as migrants in ag, want to be janitors, nannies or temp day workers ?

25 posted on 11/27/2005 6:53:20 AM PST by staytrue
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To: dubyaismypresident
I don't hate business. In fact there is nothing better than free unmanipulated markets to properly allocate goods and services. I hate artifical market manipulation.

Isn't having a govt. mandated ceiling on the supply of labor, a market manipulation, that you abhor.

26 posted on 11/27/2005 6:53:38 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: Dane
What market manipulation, it's actually called letting the invisible hand of the market work it's magic.

Artificially increasing the labor market by employing illegals is market manipulation.

27 posted on 11/27/2005 6:53:47 AM PST by NeoCaveman (I'm not without a tagline, I merely have a deferred tagline)
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To: Borax Queen

http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/

Go to the classified section. Then come back and tell me how many framer and cement jobs are in there.

Wonder why they hire the first available person? If I were one of these places I'd do the same thing. When you got homes to build, build em.


28 posted on 11/27/2005 6:54:01 AM PST by crz
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To: Borax Queen
Sens. Jon Kyl, R-Ariz., and John Cornyn, R-Texas, are backing a plan that would force undocumented workers to first return to their home country to apply for a guest worker permit.

The ONLY plan that has possibilities. They MUST return home and than apply from there would make more sense, the other RINO plans or anything that smacks of amnesty should be a big Texas NO!

And the Employers must be listed on their app, a length of stay, and make it a LIMITED stay!

29 posted on 11/27/2005 6:55:49 AM PST by stopem (Coming soon Texas Trash on my homepage.)
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To: Spiff
breaking and entering our country.

I think "criminal trespass" is the more accurate term. Breaking and entering is where you "break" something to gain entry to a building. Trespass is where you occupy space without permission.

30 posted on 11/27/2005 6:55:55 AM PST by staytrue
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To: Dane
Isn't having a govt. mandated ceiling on the supply of labor, a market manipulation, that you abhor.

Not if that ceiling is defined as "everybody who is here legally".

Otherwise shouldn't we import about a half billion Chinese to bring down our "artificially high wages" that would correct the "problem" quick.

A nation without borders is not a nation. Maybe that doesn't matter to a lawless libertarian.

31 posted on 11/27/2005 6:57:13 AM PST by NeoCaveman (I'm not without a tagline, I merely have a deferred tagline)
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To: sangoo
Americans will do any job if paid fairly.

No they won't. A lot of citizens refuse jobs because they will lose their medicaid if they do. They do part time work for under the table pay to supplement their govt. assistance. I have a friend collecting unemployment. He is seeking under the table pay or a full time job that pays much more than unemployment, but not any decent job.

32 posted on 11/27/2005 6:59:23 AM PST by staytrue
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To: crz

What's your point - that you are another illegal alien sympathizer on the thread who would and probably does hire illegal aliens? Whatever. "Then come back" and tell me how it is all right for these companies [sounds like you] to break America's laws.


33 posted on 11/27/2005 7:00:20 AM PST by Borax Queen
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To: Dane
Saying the price of labor is too high is just the flip side of saying profits are too high.

Too sides of the same coin. The coin that thinks they can manage the economy better than the free market.
34 posted on 11/27/2005 7:00:30 AM PST by NeoCaveman (what part of illegal don't they understand)
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To: dubyaismypresident
A nation without borders is not a nation. Maybe that doesn't matter to a lawless libertarian

LOL! Me a "lawless libertarian", you havent read my replies on the libertarian threads have you. First of all I'm not for tearing down the border and have many times stated that I am for the Kyl/Cornyn guest worker plan and I wish not to punish businesses that produce benficial goods and services as you seem wont to do.

35 posted on 11/27/2005 7:01:32 AM PST by Dane ( anyone who believes hillary would do something to stop illegal immigration is believing gibberish)
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To: crz
http://www.kingmandailyminer.com/
Go to the classified section.

There are that many jobs for uneducated, unqualified, gophers out there? Imagine one of them, illegals, who have no experience building your $750,000.00 home...hmm....

36 posted on 11/27/2005 7:02:15 AM PST by stopem (Coming soon Texas Trash on my homepage.)
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To: Dane
"What market manipulation, it's actually called letting the invisible hand of the market work it's magic."

You are obviously clueless as to how to run a small business in a legal fashion.

If your business model requires that you break the law and become a tax cheat, you should not be in business.

If you need illegals as employees, you do not have a viable business model.

It's really that simple.
37 posted on 11/27/2005 7:02:35 AM PST by taxed2death (A few billion here, a few trillion there...we're all friends right?)
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To: dubyaismypresident
equilibrium (market) price

Problem is welfare and social security taxes have so distorted the market price that the market does not work very well.

38 posted on 11/27/2005 7:03:00 AM PST by staytrue
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To: stopem

Maybe that's why so many of the expensive homes around here have problems soon after they are built...


39 posted on 11/27/2005 7:03:14 AM PST by Borax Queen
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To: dubyaismypresident

Then you had better automate leaf raking, floor scrubbing, baby sitting, oil changing, tire fixing, potato peeling (I can't wait to see the automated potato peeler/slicer/dicer at Kevin's Coffee Shop)... etc., etc., etc.

I wrote a speech for an auto executive recently about the CURRENT shortage of dealer service technicians which stands at 100,000. These are good jobs at good wages that are begging for entry level techicians who can come in and learn the business. The proprietary schools are graduating young men and women in this field but they're not enough, and the manufacturers are providing scholarships and stipends for promising students. There are good jobs out there. What are you going to say when an immigrant (legal or otherwise) steps up to the take one of them?


40 posted on 11/27/2005 7:03:34 AM PST by joeystoy
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