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1 posted on 11/17/2005 4:20:47 PM PST by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
"By Erin P. Billings and Emily Pierce

Roll Call Staff

May 6, 2004

Signaling a new, more aggressive line against the Bush administration’s policy on Iraq, Rep. John Murtha (Pa.), the House Democrats’ most visible defense hawk, will join Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) today to make public his previously private statements that the conflict is “unwinnable.”

2 posted on 11/17/2005 4:24:26 PM PST by fat city ("The nation that controls magnetism controls the world.")
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To: churchillbuff

Scroll up to Kathryn Jean Lopez's post at 3:41PM


3 posted on 11/17/2005 4:25:31 PM PST by jla (Proud Conservative-Purist)
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To: churchillbuff

I'm more concerned about how a withdrawal would affect the people in Iraq, not Bush.


4 posted on 11/17/2005 4:27:01 PM PST by Steve_Seattle
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To: churchillbuff

I disagree with Dreher and Murtha. We cannot pull out immediately. We have to remain until a stable democratic regime and capable Iraqi forces. That has always been and always will be the "strategy". Things are moving in a positive direction. December 15 will be elections of a permanent government under the new Iraqi popularly approved constitution. Iraqi forces are taking over responsibilities as they get trained up. There is nothing more the President can do than he is already doing on these two fronts, and at this point to set a timetable would be counterproductive vis-a-vis the insurgency. Murtha is extremely irresponsible here, as is Dreher for praising him. Moreover, Murtha has been bad-mouthing the war effort for at least a year and a half.


5 posted on 11/17/2005 4:27:07 PM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: churchillbuff
"I like guys who have never been there to criticize us who have been there. I like that. I like guys that have got five deferments and never been there ands end people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions about what needs to be done."

--John Murtha, when asked his opinion on the president and vice president's comments about the Democrats' lying short and selective memory about the run-up to this war

John Murtha can kiss my commoner redneck ass.

7 posted on 11/17/2005 4:28:57 PM PST by RichInOC (Democrats p**s me off!)
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To: churchillbuff
He is, first and foremost, a politician who needs to suck up to his base.
9 posted on 11/17/2005 4:29:46 PM PST by verity (Don't let your children grow up to be mainstream media maggots.)
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To: churchillbuff

Dreher's a smart guy, but a bit of an oddball.


10 posted on 11/17/2005 4:29:51 PM PST by Clemenza (Ticking Away the Moments that Make up the Dog Day)
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To: churchillbuff

Your so anti-Bush that I am sure you loved every minute of Murtha's comments.

He is getting old, a lapdog of Pelosi, and you think that most of us in Middle America are going to pay attention to Murtha -- think again -- people calling in the radio are mad. He is nothing more than a mouthpiece for Pelosi.

He has now joined the side of the traitors and and might as well have said our military who died would have died for nothing with his cut and run statement. As Speaker of the House Hastert said after Murtha's outburst, that these people have forgot what happened on 9-11! Also Murtha is a member of the House Leadership which means his credibility is zero, zip, nada!


15 posted on 11/17/2005 4:31:41 PM PST by PhiKapMom (AOII MOM -- Istook for OK Governor in 2006!)
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To: churchillbuff

WARD Churchillbluff: Murtha breaks Wind and a few hundred thousand calls and emails cascaded into his office condemning his assinine remarks.


17 posted on 11/17/2005 4:32:44 PM PST by DarthVader (Do something positive for your country today: Punch an America hating leftie in the mouth.)
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To: churchillbuff

Oh,I think we take the whole thing seriously. Especially, the Republicans who are abandoning the ship in a storm. I really fear for this country if there are no REAL MEN left that will stand up and fight the biggest threat this country has ever known. Thank God there are still REAL MEN in the military,the WH,on Freeper's and one next to my side at night. God help this country if we lose our nerve in this fight.


19 posted on 11/17/2005 4:33:09 PM PST by penelopesire
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To: churchillbuff
From Jeff Goldstein's blog:

Typical Dreher—tells us all that the sky is falling, then tries to barricade himself against criticism for his flabby, defeatist attitude by predicting that criticism in advance. So very very brave of Rod. “A pox on those conservative bloggers and their reactionary response to reason,” he practically squeals. “Why won’t they just resign themselves to the truth?—that when a ‘crusty’ retired Marine begins making impassioned speeches about surrendering in Iraq, well, it’s game over, man. Game over!”

All rather transparent, I think.

To me, what is so insulting about posts like Dreher’s is that they strain so very hard to appear dispassionate; and yet, one really need not be part of the evil VRWC Dreher seems tacitly to believe is alive and well and living on the right side of the blogosphere to be able see through such barely concealed panic and rhetorical hamfistedness.

Here’s the thing: It’s okay to say you are now for withdrawing the troops, Rod. Really— there’s no need to soften us with a lot of heavyhanded talk about defining moments and ground shifts.

But what you shouldn’t do is insult our intelligence. It’s quite possible to take someone like Murtha seriously (perhaps he truly is passionate in his convictions, irrelevant though that may be) and to find him absolutely and unabashedly wrong at the same time. At which point, our taking him seriously on the strength of his emotional appeals has very little whatever to do with how we should regard the war in Iraq, which, from a truly dispassionate standpoint, we simply cannot afford to lose.

Dreher suggests that he is simply warning conservatives that once they lose people like Murtha, the war effort is in trouble. But the fact of the matter is, the war effort is only in trouble if people like Dreher—writing for the National Review—continue to make a big deal out of losing every Democrat like Murtha, who has clearly allowed emotionalism to cloud his better judgment.

The war in Iraq is right because it is right. And that’s all there is to it, really. We must stay until the war is won. Anything short of that would prove a terrible strategic blow to this country, and would make us less safe for years to come.

http://www.proteinwisdom.com/index.php/weblog/


20 posted on 11/17/2005 4:33:21 PM PST by Roscoe Karns
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To: churchillbuff

Are your kidding? Over a year ago he was lamenting the war was unwinable, he hasn't changed, just another rat carrying on as usual.


25 posted on 11/17/2005 4:35:47 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis ("It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" Emiliano Zapata 1879-1919)
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To: churchillbuff

Call me a fool then.

I cannot see any possible scenario to our national strategic benefit from an immediate unconditional withdrawal of US troops from Iraq.

And nice timing, Congressman Jack. With Iraq national elections only 3 weeks away, the extremist islamist insurgents needed a morale booster. And any Iraqi who was thinking of sticking his/her neck out, defying the insurgents to vote, and trusting America to stand by its commitment to their fledgling democracy ... needed a kick in the a$$ from the USA "democrat" party.


26 posted on 11/17/2005 4:35:49 PM PST by silverleaf (Fasten your seat belts- it's going to be a BUMPY ride.)
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To: churchillbuff
And just what happens when the country needs to go to war again to defend itself? Will any future president have the gonads to make such a decision, or will he/she just cave to the aggressor? That answer seems self apparent to me.
27 posted on 11/17/2005 4:36:05 PM PST by billhilly (If you're lurking here from DU (Democrats unglued), I trust this post will make you sick.)
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To: churchillbuff

Someone has Murtha's arm twisted good. Don't let anyone think this man is doing this because of his honor. He is doing this to save his party from what he thinks could be his party's last battle. This is a calculated attempt to force the White House to stand down, it means that the White House is being effective. I say smack the senial mfr down, he sold his soul for the lies of his party the lies that I am so tired of hearing.


28 posted on 11/17/2005 4:36:45 PM PST by Ma3lst0rm (Arguing with a liberal is like arguing with a pull-string doll.)
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To: churchillbuff

WE WILL NOT REWRITE HISTORY & WE WILL NOT REPEAT HISTORY!

 

 

 


33 posted on 11/17/2005 4:37:58 PM PST by Not a 60s Hippy (They are SOCIALISTS, not Progressive, Liberal, Left Wing, Democrats, Special interest groups.)
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To: churchillbuff
What a #ussy. Dreher that, is.

He gives the man's argument credence because he is....crusty?

What RINO-style quivering....this debate is long overdue, and I am happy to see the Dems come out of their hidey-hole and their false patriotism on this war, and finally be honest in their defeatism and quitting spirit.

The Dems do not want to be on this turf, but they apparently feel bold enough to try and pull a Vietnam here. Time for some political ass-whipping.

34 posted on 11/17/2005 4:38:06 PM PST by Monti Cello
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To: churchillbuff

Oh, did the earth move for you too? I'm sure it did for all other America-hating liberals, democrats and assorted socialist pukes as well. Obviously Murtha has gone soft and is full of democrat horse hocky.


35 posted on 11/17/2005 4:38:22 PM PST by Jim Robinson
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he's a crusty retired career Marine

Most of that career was as a nondeploying, nonactive reservist.

If Murtha really gave a damn about the grunts on the ground in Iraq he'd get them a decent rifle. Until then he can STFU.

36 posted on 11/17/2005 4:38:59 PM PST by A.A. Cunningham
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To: churchillbuff

You and Murtha belong at a different website.
Tell me how his arguments for an immediate withdrawal are valid and credible and not a politically timed grandstand while the pres is overseas.

So what if he is a Nam vet. BFD.

He is one of the assholes calling for a draft.

He is throwing a hissy fit because he cannot personally micromanage this conflict from his armchair in DC.

Screw him and the horse he rode in on, senator or not.

He does not speak for current veterans, and active duty folks.


39 posted on 11/17/2005 4:39:13 PM PST by axes_of_weezles (mainstream extremist (Ha))
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