Posted on 11/14/2005 4:11:13 AM PST by Timeout
In just the last few days, I've detected two new Dem talking points in their "Bush Lied" campaign.
1) Clinton (or any Dem congressman) may have believed Saddam had WMD, but HE DIDN'T GO TO WAR OVER IT.
and
2) Bush decided to invade Iraq 2 days after 9/11. It was predetermined, so it didn't matter how I voted.
I'm not saying we haven't heard these before. I'm saying they are now the canned response to questions about what the Dems did before the Iraq war.
The appearance of these new canards tells me the Dems are satisfied that they've acheived their first goal: convincing Americans that Bush lied. It's now a given in any MSM story that the president distorted intelligence. The foundation is laid. Now they need to build on it. Bush not only lied, he's a warmonger determined to invade Iraq with no thought of the consequences for those poor soldiers carrying the burden.
The first point is most interesting to me. If you really think about it, what they're saying is: "Yes, I thought Saddam was an imminent threat. I thought he was developing dangerous weapons. He was torturing and killing his own people. He was threatening his neighbors and the region's oil. BUT, I WOULDN'T HAVE DONE ANYTHING ABOUT IT".
I'd like to develop a ping list for posting here anytime someone detects a new point.
Any takers?
Also, that Dems in Congress didn't have access to exactly the same info about Iraqi weapons programs-- that they got a filtered and corrupted version.
I don't know if you only want talking points regarding WMD intelligence or if talking points on the left for all issues are to be included.
A new talking point for the left is when talking about abortion now, they don't say pro choice. They say "privacy issues". That sounds so much better, doesn't it?
OSTT ping
Please add this to the OSTT thread.
What did the Dems know and when did they know it? This MUST be investigated.
As usual, Democrats are telling an outright lie. They need to be reminded of Clinton's justification for undertaking his surprise 4-day bombing of Baghdad back in December, 1998.
The timing was interesting. The bombing commenced on December 17, the SAME DAY that the House of Representatives was scheduled to vote on the Articles of Impeachment.
Some say the objective was to delay the vote until the end of the term, only a couple of weeks away, so that the vote would be taken up in the new term where there would be more 5 more Democrats seated (and thus a greater likelihood that Clinton would win the vote and avoid impeachment).
With great self-righteousness, the Democratic House leadership publicly called for a postponement of the impeachment proceedings, arguing that America must unite behind the President while our troops were in harms way, and that the imeachment vote should not proceed as long as the military action continued.
The House agreed to postpone the vote, but only for one day, and it was held on December 18. Virtually as soon as it became evident that the Impeachment would proceed anyway, Clinton called off the bombing campaign.
Afterwards, Clinton and Secretary of Defense William Cohen stated publicly that the Baghdad bombing campaign had set back Saddam's WMD program by at least a year.
Incidentally, Congress was not consulted and NEVER voted to allow Clinton to undertake this bombing.
So now that the Democrats are falling all over themselves screaming that Bush lied about the reasons to invade Iraq, let's all take time to remember the Democrats' hypocritical and self-serving support of Clinton's cynical military action.
EXT OF PRESIDENT CLINTON'S BRIEFING ON IRAQI AIRSTRIKES. DEC. 17, 1998
Good evening.
Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.
Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.
Saddam Hussein must not be allowed to threaten his neighbors or the world with nuclear arms, poison gas or biological weapons.
I want to explain why I have decided, with the unanimous recommendation of my national security team, to use force in Iraq; why we have acted now; and what we aim to accomplish.
Six weeks ago, Saddam Hussein announced that he would no longer cooperate with the United Nations weapons inspectors called UNSCOM. They are highly professional experts from dozens of countries. Their job is to oversee the elimination of Iraq's capability to retain, create and use weapons of mass destruction, and to verify that Iraq does not attempt to rebuild that capability.
The inspectors undertook this mission first seven and a half years ago at the end of the Gulf War, when Iraq agreed to declare and destroy its arsenal as a condition of the cease-fire.
The international community had good reason to set this requirement. Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq.
The international community had little doubt then, and I have no doubt today, that left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will use these terrible weapons again.
The United States has patiently worked to preserve UNSCOM as Iraq has sought to avoid its obligation to cooperate with the inspectors. On occasion, we've had to threaten military force, and Saddam has backed down.
Faced with Saddam's latest act of defiance in late October, we built intensive diplomatic pressure on Iraq backed by overwhelming military force in the region. The U.N. Security Council voted 15 to zero to condemn Saddam's actions and to demand that he immediately come into compliance.
Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the U.N.
When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then, at the last possible moment, that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the U.N. that it had made, and I quote, "a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors."
I decided then to call off the attack with our airplanes already in the air because Saddam had given in to our demands. I concluded then that the right thing to do was to use restraint and give Saddam one last chance to prove his willingness to cooperate.
I made it very clear at that time what unconditional cooperation meant, based on existing U.N. resolutions and Iraq's own commitments. And along with Prime Minister Blair of Great Britain, I made it equally clear that if Saddam failed to cooperate fully, we would be prepared to act without delay, diplomacy or warning.
Now over the past three weeks, the U.N. weapons inspectors have carried out their plan for testing Iraq's cooperation. The testing period ended this weekend, and last night, UNSCOM's chairman, Richard Butler, reported the results to U.N. Secretary-General Annan.
The conclusions are stark, sobering and profoundly disturbing.
In four out of the five categories set forth, Iraq has failed to cooperate. Indeed, it actually has placed new restrictions on the inspectors. Here are some of the particulars.
Iraq repeatedly blocked UNSCOM from inspecting suspect sites. For example, it shut off access to the headquarters of its ruling party and said it will deny access to the party's other offices, even though U.N. resolutions make no exception for them and UNSCOM has inspected them in the past.
Iraq repeatedly restricted UNSCOM's ability to obtain necessary evidence. For example, Iraq obstructed UNSCOM's effort to photograph bombs related to its chemical weapons program.
It tried to stop an UNSCOM biological weapons team from videotaping a site and photocopying documents and prevented Iraqi personnel from answering UNSCOM's questions.
Prior to the inspection of another site, Iraq actually emptied out the building, removing not just documents but even the furniture and the equipment.
Iraq has failed to turn over virtually all the documents requested by the inspectors. Indeed, we know that Iraq ordered the destruction of weapons-related documents in anticipation of an UNSCOM inspection.
So Iraq has abused its final chance.
As the UNSCOM report concludes, and again I quote, "Iraq's conduct ensured that no progress was able to be made in the fields of disarmament.
"In light of this experience, and in the absence of full cooperation by Iraq, it must regrettably be recorded again that the commission is not able to conduct the work mandated to it by the Security Council with respect to Iraq's prohibited weapons program."
In short, the inspectors are saying that even if they could stay in Iraq, their work would be a sham.
Saddam's deception has defeated their effectiveness. Instead of the inspectors disarming Saddam, Saddam has disarmed the inspectors.
This situation presents a clear and present danger to the stability of the Persian Gulf and the safety of people everywhere. The international community gave Saddam one last chance to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors. Saddam has failed to seize the chance.
And so we had to act and act now.
Let me explain why.
First, without a strong inspection system, Iraq would be free to retain and begin to rebuild its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs in months, not years.
Second, if Saddam can cripple the weapons inspection system and get away with it, he would conclude that the international community -- led by the United States -- has simply lost its will. He will surmise that he has free rein to rebuild his arsenal of destruction, and someday -- make no mistake -- he will use it again as he has in the past.
Third, in halting our air strikes in November, I gave Saddam a chance, not a license. If we turn our backs on his defiance, the credibility of U.S. power as a check against Saddam will be destroyed. We will not only have allowed Saddam to shatter the inspection system that controls his weapons of mass destruction program; we also will have fatally undercut the fear of force that stops Saddam from acting to gain domination in the region.
That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security advisor -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq.
They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors.
At the same time, we are delivering a powerful message to Saddam. If you act recklessly, you will pay a heavy price. We acted today because, in the judgment of my military advisors, a swift response would provide the most surprise and the least opportunity for Saddam to prepare.
If we had delayed for even a matter of days from Chairman Butler's report, we would have given Saddam more time to disperse his forces and protect his weapons.
Also, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins this weekend. For us to initiate military action during Ramadan would be profoundly offensive to the Muslim world and, therefore, would damage our relations with Arab countries and the progress we have made in the Middle East.
That is something we wanted very much to avoid without giving Iraq a month's head start to prepare for potential action against it.
Finally, our allies, including Prime Minister Tony Blair of Great Britain, concurred that now is the time to strike. I hope Saddam will come into cooperation with the inspection system now and comply with the relevant U.N. Security Council resolutions. But we have to be prepared that he will not, and we must deal with the very real danger he poses.
So we will pursue a long-term strategy to contain Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction and work toward the day when Iraq has a government worthy of its people.
First, we must be prepared to use force again if Saddam takes threatening actions, such as trying to reconstitute his weapons of mass destruction or their delivery systems, threatening his neighbors, challenging allied aircraft over Iraq or moving against his own Kurdish citizens.
The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War.
Second, so long as Iraq remains out of compliance, we will work with the international community to maintain and enforce economic sanctions. Sanctions have cost Saddam more than $120 billion -- resources that would have been used to rebuild his military. The sanctions system allows Iraq to sell oil for food, for medicine, for other humanitarian supplies for the Iraqi people.
We have no quarrel with them. But without the sanctions, we would see the oil-for-food program become oil-for-tanks, resulting in a greater threat to Iraq's neighbors and less food for its people.
The hard fact is that so long as Saddam remains in power, he threatens the well-being of his people, the peace of his region, the security of the world.
The best way to end that threat once and for all is with a new Iraqi government -- a government ready to live in peace with its neighbors, a government that respects the rights of its people. Bringing change in Baghdad will take time and effort. We will strengthen our engagement with the full range of Iraqi opposition forces and work with them effectively and prudently.
The decision to use force is never cost-free. Whenever American forces are placed in harm's way, we risk the loss of life. And while our strikes are focused on Iraq's military capabilities, there will be unintended Iraqi casualties.
Indeed, in the past, Saddam has intentionally placed Iraqi civilians in harm's way in a cynical bid to sway international opinion.
We must be prepared for these realities. At the same time, Saddam should have absolutely no doubt if he lashes out at his neighbors, we will respond forcefully.
Heavy as they are, the costs of action must be weighed against the price of inaction. If Saddam defies the world and we fail to respond, we will face a far greater threat in the future. Saddam will strike again at his neighbors. He will make war on his own people.
And mark my words, he will develop weapons of mass destruction. He will deploy them, and he will use them.
Because we're acting today, it is less likely that we will face these dangers in the future.
Let me close by addressing one other issue. Saddam Hussein and the other enemies of peace may have thought that the serious debate currently before the House of Representatives would distract Americans or weaken our resolve to face him down.
But once more, the United States has proven that although we are never eager to use force, when we must act in America's vital interests, we will do so.
In the century we're leaving, America has often made the difference between chaos and community, fear and hope. Now, in the new century, we'll have a remarkable opportunity to shape a future more peaceful than the past, but only if we stand strong against the enemies of peace.
Tonight, the United States is doing just that. May God bless and protect the brave men and women who are carrying out this vital mission and their families. And may God bless America.
H. Dean stated yesterday: The Democrates will tell Americans the TRUTH about THINGS that MATTER.
The obvious response to the "it was predetermed so I voted anyway" it American are tauight from thecradel that "our vote counts". This democRAT delusion say votes don't matter at all. They can't really defend that point if it is persuded. Addionally, Bombing is trivial? Last I understoon bombing a country was an act of war if not a declaration. It that their point? Did Clinton bomb for nothing then?? Just another Sunday afternoon pastime for relaxation? Is that the legacy he is seeking. The logic is just not there with the DEMS but that is par for the course. We just don't challenge their flawed arguments enough. It is much more logical that Clinton bombed because it matter" and after 9/11 it matter even more to take the battle off our land.
Well there you have it, alls President Bush needed to do was get unanimous consent.....
What is OSTT?
Honest and resonable people know he didnt lie. Their talking points change so often even they dont what they believe..
Weren't there some surprising "overstatements" leading to the action in Kosovo? From some of the reports it seemed like we might have been on the wrong side. Anyone have any information on THAT intelligence?
While listening to NPR this morning, the reporter was discussing this topic. The lead in was President Bush making the case that the Democrats had access to the same intelligence and made similar statements as the White House in the run up to the Iraq war in regards to WMD. The reporter countered this with that statement that it was the White House's responsibility to verify/validate the intelligence.
The reporter did not attribute this argument to a specific source (They rarely do when it in regards to the Democrats) and since he is not unique in using this argument, I assume that it is coming from the Democrat's talking points.
It is obvious to even the casual observer that MSM reporters routinely take it upon themselves to defend the Democrat side of an issue and 'toss out' arguments on the fly. This 'public service' is not one they often perform in support of the Republican side of a given argument. Yet whenever there are any mention of media bias they howl at the injustice of the claim.
I thought I'd add this here as well. It's not a talking point - just a flat out lie. By Tim Russert yesterday.
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1521649/posts
So if President Bush concerned himself more with intern-sex, then he would be considered great?
Keep in mind, Clinton bombed more countries than Bush has.
See: Operation Spread the Truth (Day 3)(Fighting back against the Lib's Fib's)
Jay Rockefeller took this one strong. He said he went to all our allies in the Middle East and told them Bush had already decided to go to war 2 days after 9/11 -- and that was before the war.
The host of the show didn't even bother to ask him WHY he did that, or what he was hoping to accomplish meddling in foreign affairs.
Remember that Bob Woodward wrote a book about this time period, and debunks that notion. Bob is a good source for this because he is revered amongst democrats who are considered sane.
I'm still ticked about that. Hmm, wonder why we didn't see CNN keeping a tally of innocents who were caught in the cross fire merely because BJ couldn't keep himself zippered.
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