Posted on 11/10/2005 9:37:46 PM PST by Arjun
That's not a silly comment in the slightest. The article specifically praises the Indian aircraft for in-visual-range capability. There is no denying that Indian forces are migrating toward greater BVR capability, and no one denies individual component capability. Your hypersensitive multi-post response to someone making a valid observation is what got me "so stirred up." I'm tired of seeing virtually any discussion of U.S. military technology/doctrine/capability versus anyone else quickly devolve into this sort of thing.
The only way to hedge and win on this sort of topic (e.g. prevent fanboy "nuh uh!" responses) seems to be to open with, "The U.S. has nothing special and its training is sub-par versus most other major militaries, especially for all the money it spends; any claimed superiority is just a myth."
Listen, I am not talking about the article. Whatever you know (or you think you know) about Indian tech, Russian tech or your own American tech, the fact is that US does not yet have IN SERVICE, a plane that can outperform the MKIs. If you have a different take on that then lets hear it but please refrain from endorsing ill informed comments like the western planes taking out MKIs from 10-20km away. At least do your homework before you know what you are talking about.
Ping
Moreover I am not disputing US air superiority, it a know fact of life and not just because of the technology used by the US. As the saying goes amatures talk weapons and tactics, veterans talk logistics. The US still reigns supreme even when their technology is evenly matched by their enemy.
If you want to have an intelligent discussion on technology/doctrine/capability , do so without the prejudice that the US far outflanks the whole world in everything and that absolutely nothing can even get near.
"But the soviet aircraft are still too largely focused around "super maneuverability" for in-close engagements"
I know that but its not as if they dont have BVR capabilities. Plus the IAF did a good job of integrating components from Europe or India itself to substantially improve upon the Original Su-30 in particular.
check this out.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircraft/Specs/Su-30.html
We dont know the results yet
US pilots outgunned SEVEN TO ONE.
Keep cheering.
====================================================
Interesting. Sounds like a great training opportunity. What were the rules of engagement? Sometimes they are adjusted relevant to the technology or experience level of the "combatants". And, sometimes U.S. guys get their butts kicked in training to be better in the "real world". Is this a competition of "the best of the best" in the Indian AF versus the same from the USAF? Are we talking apples and apples, or apples and oranges?
And, one more thing. Link??
SFS
"seven to one"
Tell me is this is just another of your silly posts or you have a source? I think I have already responded to the same above comment on another thread.
And the AMRAAM is the end-state of all our missile technology? Not by a long shot.
By working with the British, we're moving toward the next step in ramjet technology. Four times the speed of sound will be meaningless at longer ranges when EW assets are employed, and will PALE in comparison to end-range speed and maneuverability of the Brit-Raytheon mix.
Everybody's so worked up about the Indian exercise and you deliberately fail to consider some of the key constraints of that exercise:
1. Lack of AWACS support, while the IAF had full ground control radar at their disposal.
2. SEVEN TO ONE engagement ratios. F-15C pilots were flying into a hornets' nest BLINDFOLDED.
If Soviet/Russian aircraft are so potent, why was the USAF deliberately crippled for this fight?
Original reports for the first exercise.
Posted by USAF vets in the know and after-action reports by the USAF.
Silly.
Keep drinking the kool-aid.
He is just BSing.
The article posted on FR has it 6 F-15Cs against 12 Su-30s and that was back in 2004.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1517145/posts
Bump to that.
I dont think the last exercise really was meant as a test of russian aircraft against US aircraft.
I agree that the US aircraft were crippled in the last Exercise. But we cannot look too much into it. It was the first exercise in many decadesand both sides did not field fully equiped aircraft. US probably underestimated IAF and Indians were more interested in testing a real life encounter which is likely to happen with Pak which does not fly AWACS or AESA radars.
Lets not get into a discussion about whether US aircraft are better or russian aircraft are better. Thats not worth it.
US learns to take out Chinese Sukhois via Indian Sukhois (thought the Indian ones use Western/Indian avionics and have thrust-vectoring), India learns to take out Pakistani F16s, via US F16s (though US planes have unmatched avionics, far superior to what Pakistan has or can ever have).
End analysis: Win-Win for the US and India. Brings both closer together.
"By working with the British, we're moving toward the next step in ramjet technology."
Ramjet?? Ever heard of the Indo-Russian Brahmos (the worlds fastest missile) and already in service in India? Please talk about stuff that are "in service" not stuff that will be out in a few decades.
"1. Lack of AWACS support, while the IAF had full ground control radar at their disposal. "
I agree with that.
"2. SEVEN TO ONE engagement ratios. F-15C pilots were flying into a hornets' nest BLINDFOLDED. "
This one is pure BS and gross exaggeration. Do you have any link?
The real figures are 2 to 1 or (3 to 1) if you count in the pure ground attack jets.
"If Soviet/Russian aircraft are so potent, why was the USAF deliberately crippled for this fight?"
Thats because its meant to simulate the overwhelming numeric odds the USAF is likely to face when it engages similar fighters of the PLAAF over the Straits. There the carrier based F-18 will probably face the odds of 10 to 1 against the PLAAF comming from the mainland although the PLAAF Migs and Sukhois will not be so advanced.
Wasn't that caused by a bird-hit? IIRC, Discovery Channel had a programme in which this video featured. An object was noticed entering and causing a flare in one of the engines of the plane, which subsequently caught fire, during a slow-motion analysis.
And the pilots survived, even though the ejection was at near-ground level.
Oh dont bother. Anything thats Russian or Indian HAS to be bad.
/sarc.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.