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Violence exposes France's weaknesses
BBC ^ | Monday, 7 November 2005, 14:34 GMT | John Simpson

Posted on 11/07/2005 7:32:04 AM PST by rface

Years of reporting on riots and revolutions have shown me that crowds display a mysterious collective sense which somehow overrides the perceptions and fears of the individuals who make up the mass. And crowds have a remarkable feeling for the weakness of government.........

Last spring, over dinner in Paris, a close friend of mine who runs one of the biggest opera houses outside the French capital told me: "I've got this persistent feeling that 1968 is just about to happen all over again."

He had no idea that the violence would erupt in the dreary, featureless suburbs.

He thought it was because the French political system had run out of ideas and credibility, and he knew the French.

These moments of weakness are the times when trouble always seems to break out.

Moment of weakness?

If President Jacques Chirac and the centre-right government which supports him had been in full control of France's political life, it is hard to think these long days and nights of continuous rioting would have taken place.

The feelings of resentment and simmering anger in the suburbs would have been just as strong, but the crowds would mostly have held back.


Chirac must control the rioters or his image will be fatally damaged

Years of reporting on riots and revolutions have shown me that crowds display a mysterious collective sense which somehow overrides the perceptions and fears of the individuals who make up the mass. And crowds have a remarkable feeling for the weakness of government.

There is of course a huge well of fury and resentment among the children of North African and African immigrants in the suburbs of French cities. The suburbs have been woefully ignored for 30 years.

Violence there is regular and unexceptionable. Even on a normal weekend, between 20 and 30 vehicles are regularly attacked and burned by rioters.

Power decline

This time the riots are joined up, pre-planned, co-ordinated. At some level of consciousness, the demonstrators know that the governmental system they are facing is deeply, perhaps incurably, sclerotic.

Mr Chirac, standing back until his ministers showed their inability to agree a clear line on the rioting, seems not to have the answers when he speaks now. His presidency is overshadowed by an inescapable sense of past corruption and weakness, and he has governed France at a time when its economy and its position in the world have both declined sharply and markedly.


Violence in the poor suburbs is a frequent occurrence

No matter that events have thoroughly borne out his criticisms of the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Muslim teenagers who briefly applauded him then have long since forgotten all that - though of course if he had supported President George W Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair then, he would be in even greater trouble now.

In 1968, too, President Charles de Gaulle and his ministers spoke sternly of the need for order to be restored immediately, and yet they did nothing.

If the riot police could have restored order they would have done so, but they were overstretched and outwitted, and their only response was more of the kind of violence which made the crowds even more ferocious in their turn.

Anti-French tone

I remember the 1968 riots very well. But of course the differences between then and now were as great as the similarities. For a start, the riots of 2005 are still all about the bitter and genuine grievances of the Muslim and African communities, ignored and demeaned and kept in poverty by a system which cares very little about them.


Sarkosy is appealing to right-wing resentment

Only if a much wider swathe of French society gets involved on their side will the situation become truly pre-revolutionary, in the way that the crowds of 1968 were.

And since the riots have taken on a fiercely anti-French tone, and the violence and destruction have sickened so many people in the suburbs themselves, that seems unlikely at present.

France, though, tends to move forward in fits and starts, rather than organically, and these fits and starts are often associated with violence.

Spirit of revolution

Thanks to the Revolution, violence even has a kind of virtue which it simply does not possess in a country like Britain. When government becomes incapable of change, the crowds in the streets have to do the changing for themselves.

There is a great deal that has to be changed. I have seen many times for myself how the CRS, the deeply aggressive and ferocious force of riot police, have attacked Muslims and Africans in the streets in times of trouble.


The police have failed to bring the rioters under control

Last April, Amnesty International singled out the violence and racism of the French police towards the non-white people of the suburbs for particular criticism.

Nicolas Sarkozy, the Interior Minister, now seems to be playing politics with the situation by appealing to the most basic and resentful attitudes of conservative France.

Much of the violence on the streets of France's cities is mindless; some of it is malign. But simply stamping it down will not work - and anyway the CRS and the civil police have tried that, and their toughness has only made things worse.

France is going to have to change towards its unwilling, often unwelcome young second-generation population, and accommodate them better.

It is not enough to demand that these people drop their sense of themselves and fit in with the way France has traditionally ordered its affairs.

But most of all there has to be change in attitudes at the top. And if Mr Chirac cannot do it, he will be fatally damaged as president.


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: insurgency; parisriots; uprising
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To: rface
Radical Muslims -- terrorists -- need to be identified for what they are...

Not all Muslims are terrorists. But in today's world all terrorists are Muslim. At least all modern day terrorists.

What the MSM doesn't 'get' is that the people feel there's a connection between the beliefs of Muslims and the violence they inflict on the rest of us. And there needs to be an open discussion about it.

I'm with the people who don't like it when there's prejudice against people because of their faith.

I don't like it when CBS looks down on Christians, or when Nazis look down on Jews or when all Muslims are painted with one brush.

But the truth is that something in the Muslim faith is encouraging this type of antisocial behavior and we need to discuss it openly. There's a place between blind hate and total silly acceptance of differences. And that place needs to be found.

21 posted on 11/07/2005 7:57:03 AM PST by GOPJ
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To: rface
Image hosted by Photobucket.com
22 posted on 11/07/2005 7:57:51 AM PST by TXBSAFH ("I would rather be a free man in my grave then living as a puppet or a slave." - Jimmy Cliff)
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To: rface

The usual order of French reaction to violence is appease, surrender, collaborate. We will soon hear a call from M. de Villepin or some other froggy twit to pardon Saddam.


23 posted on 11/07/2005 8:02:33 AM PST by Inwoodian
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To: rface
Chirac has always said that Muslims/Palestinians should have a homeland. I just guess he didn't figure he was going to have to give them France.
24 posted on 11/07/2005 8:02:45 AM PST by russesjunjee (Shake the fog from your eyes sheople! Our country is swirling down the sewer!)
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To: rface
No matter that events have thoroughly borne out his [Chirac's] criticisms of the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003. The Muslim teenagers who briefly applauded him then have long since forgotten all that - though of course if he had supported President George W Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair then, he would be in even greater trouble now.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. In such a situation, I'd rather be damned for doing. Good luck, Froggies.

25 posted on 11/07/2005 8:03:39 AM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Dream Ticket: Cheney/Rice '08)
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To: rface

Weakness number one is that Chirac can't call out his military--it's at least one quarter muslim.


26 posted on 11/07/2005 8:09:44 AM PST by Poincare
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To: rface

"No matter that events have thoroughly borne out his criticisms of the US and British invasion of Iraq in 2003."

BBC runs true to form - liars.


27 posted on 11/07/2005 8:30:32 AM PST by hsalaw
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Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: Bavarian Leprechaun

Sacre Blu!!! where are the Edouard Daladier's, where are the Marshal Petain's to rid France of these rouges?!?!


29 posted on 11/07/2005 8:38:32 AM PST by MaDeuce
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To: rface
Something else that's been exposed but hasn't been mentioned. Not even in the conservative press (though I would love to be corrected if I'm wrong):

What about the theory that we shouldn't be in Iraq without the support of our allies?

How come there's no discussion of what a stupid thing that was to say?

30 posted on 11/07/2005 8:39:20 AM PST by samtheman
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To: Red Badger
display a mysterious collective sense which somehow overrides the perceptions and fears of the individuals

What's so mysterious about the fact that none of these thugs are arrested? If I didn't get arrested for burning, stealing, etc...I guess my sense of fear would dissipate as well.

31 posted on 11/07/2005 8:43:48 AM PST by Taggart_D
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To: rface
Years of reporting on riots and revolutions have shown me that crowds display a mysterious collective sense which somehow overrides the perceptions and fears of the individuals who make up the mass. And crowds have a remarkable feeling for the weakness of government.........
Eric Hoffer said it all long ago:

Hoffer's beginning notion is that "people with a sense of fulfillment think the world is good while the frustrated blame the world for their failures. Therefore a mass movement's appeal is not to those intent on bolstering and advancing a cherished self, but to those who crave to be rid of an unwanted self. He continues by saying that the true believer "cannot be convinced, only converted". This basic tenet of the story is about human nature and its susceptibility to totalitarianism both secular and sectarian. To wit, he writes that "all mass movements strive to impose a fact proof screen between the faithful and the realities of the world.
---Amazon Review of: The True Believer : Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements
32 posted on 11/07/2005 9:06:43 AM PST by samtheman
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To: JohnRoss
Charles Martel, the hero of the Battle of Tours, is probably spinning in his tomb.

Along with Clemenceau, Charlemagne, and Charlotte Corday.

33 posted on 11/07/2005 9:38:17 AM PST by lesser_satan
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To: rface
How much of the poverty that the apologists for the insurrectionists claim is the cause of the riots is the direct result of direction from the Muslim leadership in France?

Following the London bombings, it was revealed that British Imams were instructing their flocks not to work, because doing so would help support the infidel state. It was much more righteous to collect welfare, and be a burden on the host state, while plotting it's destruction.
34 posted on 11/07/2005 10:12:52 AM PST by USFRIENDINVICTORIA (")
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To: rface

Quagmire....quagmire.... France must get out of France.


35 posted on 11/07/2005 10:15:30 AM PST by Godzilla (Today's mighty oak tree is just yesterdays nut who held it's ground.)
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