Taheri: French rioters calling for reorganization of France into separate religious enclaves

A two-state solution for France?

"Why Paris Is Burning" by Amir Taheri, from the New York Post, with thanks to Scissor:

Some are even calling for the areas where Muslims form a majority of the population to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the Ottoman Empire: Each religious community (millet) would enjoy the right to organize its social, cultural and educational life in accordance with its religious beliefs.
In parts of France, a de facto millet system is already in place. In these areas, all women are obliged to wear the standardized Islamist "hijab" while most men grow their beards to the length prescribed by the sheiks.
The radicals have managed to chase away French shopkeepers selling alcohol and pork products, forced "places of sin," such as dancing halls, cinemas and theaters, to close down, and seized control of much of the local administration.
A reporter who spent last weekend in Clichy and its neighboring towns of Bondy, Aulnay-sous-Bois and Bobigny heard a single overarching message: The French authorities should keep out.
"All we demand is to be left alone," said Mouloud Dahmani, one of the local "emirs" engaged in negotiations to persuade the French to withdraw the police and allow a committee of sheiks, mostly from the Muslim Brotherhood, to negotiate an end to the hostilities.
President Jacques Chirac and Premier de Villepin are especially sore because they had believed that their opposition to the toppling of Saddam Hussein in 2003 would give France a heroic image in the Muslim community.

Hmmm. You mean playing the dhimmi didn't score them points? What a shock.

That illusion has now been shattered — and the Chirac administration, already passing through a deepening political crisis, appears to be clueless about how to cope with what the Parisian daily France Soir has called a "ticking time bomb."
It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.
So what is the solution? One solution, offered by Gilles Kepel, an adviser to Chirac on Islamic affairs, is the creation of "a new Andalusia" in which Christians and Muslims would live side by side and cooperate to create a new cultural synthesis.
The problem with Kepel's vision, however, is that it does not address the important issue of political power. Who will rule this new Andalusia: Muslims or the largely secularist Frenchmen?

A "new Andalusia," eh? This shows what fictionalizing history can do to present-day policy. Andalusia was no proto-multiculturalist paradise. It was an Islamic state in which Jews and Christians lived with second-class status as dhimmis -- and the Muslim populace rioted when some non-Muslims were given positions of influence. The supremacist character of the jihad ideology would make a "new Andalusia" inevitably into something very like the old one: not the paradise of tolerance Kepel imagines, but a nightmare of oppression for non-Muslims. Frenchmen! Welcome to the future!Posted by Robert at November 4, 2005 06:40 PM | Email this entry | Print this entry

Chirac is desperate, his political career is on the line here, so creating a new Andalusa will gain him the support of every Muslim in France (more than 15 million).

And since Chirac has proposed that the vote be given to everyone in France, Frogs, Immigrants, legal or not, he gains pretty significant political muscle. That snake would sell his mother, and if he thinks he can pull it off, he'll sell France to the Muslims in a hot minute.

Watch the revolution if he proposes (read: stuffs this down their throat) this to the French people.
This is getting very interesting.

Now if only people here will watch things unfold in France...

Posted by: a10billr at November 4, 2005 07:17 PM

A two-state solution for France?

Didn't they already do that once? All the civilized human beings went to France, and the rest stayed in Algeria.

France needs to put all the "northern African" rioters into boats, take the boats to Algeria, and dump them out. If Algeria doesn't want them, let the UN figure it out.

Muslims only want one thing: MORE.

They JUST HAD to have their own little nation in India, so India gave them Pakistan and Bangladesh.

Now--imagine the nerve--Muslims IN India are agitating for THEIR own state. And if India caves, in twenty or so years, ANOTHER group of "oppressed, misunderstood, victimized" Indian Muslims will start demanding THEIR own state.

Spener says it best when he says, "The Jihad never stops; the pretexts change."Posted by: kj at November 4, 2005 07:47 PM

In a thread below about Muslim rioting in Denmark, Shiva linked to the site Islamundressed.com (chapter 11), in reference to a post about the "Emperoror's New Clothes" (an apropo tale penned by the Danish writer Hans Christian Andersen). I never did find the reference to the famous Danish fairy tale (not such a fairy tale now!) in Shiva's reference, butI did stumble across a very important statistic - one I've seen cited elsewhere WHICH IS...

that once the Muslim population in any geographical context reaches a certain "tipping point" - namely roughly 10% of the population, Muslims will begin agitating for separation.

I think of it as the "tipping point theory". Obviously, anyone following the global jihad will be familiar with the myriad surface ("root causes") explanations for these events spreading across the globe. The narrative in France, to explain the riots, is already taking shape. There has been a failure to assimilate. French citizens are inherently racist, there is a lack of "respect", blah blah blah - this coming from a country that has by all objective measures ( compared to the immigrants' countries of origin - provided richly for their citizens). There has already been an abundance of commenters to the effect that other non-Muslim immigrant populations are not rioting in Europe - so it should be apparent to any objective observer that this a singularly Muslim problem.

But as far as I can tell, the most important statistic of all is being ignored altogether in the press - namely that the Muslim population in France has reached a peculiar "tipping point". That "tipping point" being 10% of the population. It's quite extraordinary really!

Isn't it the case that the Muslim population in France has now reached the critical "tipping point"? Which is also the point at which any Muslim population will begin to agitate for separation and "autonomy". That's precisely what Teheri is describing here.

It's way beyond time for the world to notice this pattern and put an immediate stop to it.Posted by: Caroline at November 4, 2005 07:51 PM

France is really at the "turning point". Chirac will either wake up, or be run out of office on a rail. He failed to get approval of the EU Constitution, and now has to find a solution for the riots, and a solution that will please the 90% of the population, and not the 10% Moslem minority. He's going to have to earn his salary as a politician this time.

If French history has any bearing on this problem, the government is going to (eventually) send in the army, with orders to do whatever it takes to take back the streets. To hell with arrests, you're going to see funerals. I don't care how low the IQ, when the rioters beging to understand that you can't face down machine guns with Molotov cocktails, order will be restored.

As to the creation of "independent Moslem areas", forget it! The only areas like that the French will give the Moslems will be permanent residence on Devils Island. Let them convert the snakes and roaches there to whatever faith they care to.Posted by: kenprice at November 4, 2005 08:39 PM

Lazysusan:

Thanks for looking me up!

For the detailed political background of the Muslim immigration issue in Europe, you could do a lot worse than read Bat Ye'or's recent book, "Eurabia."

In essence, postwar Europe, not just France, faced a labor shortage. Germany imported unskilled labor largely from Turkey. For historical reasons, the French got theirs from North Africa (former colonies). There was also a major influx of foreigners after the Algerian War. Because of post-colonial guilt and other factors, almost no one was turned away even after the cup was full and unemployment, not labor shortages, became the problem.

We actually have the same or similar problems here, though the fact that our immigrants are largely Latinos mitigates the cultural/religious tensions that the Europeans are experiencing from large numbers of unassimilable Muslims. Not all of our immigrants are skilled, and the economy actually requires a number of unskilled workers, legal or illegal, to do the scut work that no American, even a welfare recipient, feels obliged to do.

Then there is the similarity that both in the U.S. and in France the law says if you're born here, you're a citizen, regardless of the status of your parents.

We're lucky to be dealing mostly with Latinos, because a great many of them are eager to assimilate, learn English, etc., or at least they're eager for their children to do so. France is burning because the French politicians made a devil's bargain without forethought or care for their own culture. We may end up doing the same, but for the moment we get to watch the riots there as an object lesson from which we still have the opportunity to learn.Posted by: Cato the Elder at November 4, 2005 08:54 PM

The recent Zionist Conference in Paris shows the hopeless situation World Jewry has been driven into by its radical wing. When one of the various Jewish groups is no longer united, when there are only fruitless debates, it is a sign
this is an extract from a speech on joseph goebbells, i thought it was interesting to see the similarities. make a special note of where i have a quote in speech marks thank you:

The Racial Question and World Propaganda

by Joseph Goebbels

When one of the various Jewish groups is no longer united, when there are only fruitless debates, it is a sign that Jewish power is on shaky ground. That is already beginning to have consequences for Jewry.

""These events reveal the racial problem in all its difficulty. It will not fade away until Europe's peoples solve it. It will be solved when the people for their own good do what is necessary for their security.""

Our country still faces a world boycott by International Jewry, even if it is not as open as it was earlier, and we are still threatened by a cleverly thought out and systematically executed world conspiracy

this extract can be found on http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb41.htm
near the end of the document
Posted by: bob86 at November 4, 2005 09:12 PM

Don't stop it yet.

Not until their fundamentalist Muslim demands have been broadcast on CNN, MSNBC, Fox, and the BBC.

Don't stop it yet.

Not until my neighbors have seen it on television, and heard it on the radio, and read about it in the newspapers.

Don't stop it yet.

Not until CAIR says they don't agree with such demands.

Don't stop it yet.

Not until Condi, and George, and Karen issue statements about it.

It could take a while longer. But, please, don't stop it just yet.Posted by: PRCS at November 4, 2005 09:19 PM

bob86 writes:
"i honestly think that it is truly sad that after over two thousand years of oppression, that parts of the jewish community feel that it is okay to do onto others as was done onto them."

Well bob86, I can see that you are either disingenuous, or simply not that bright.

The situation with mohammadans in Europe is quite
dissimilar from that of Jews, and JWers are, with
few exceptions (geekpunk) not nazis. The nazis
had no issue with the Jewish religion, it was all
about race. Most JWers loathe islam as a religion, for the way it makes mohammadans behave toward Infidels. Even then, most would be reluctant to set up death camps for mohammadans,
preferring to reexport them back to their coreligionists.

Now, either you know all this, and you're just a
prevaricator, or you're a bit dim. In the latter
case, I hope this helps!Posted by: American at November 4, 2005 09:34 PM

That's the same France that got it's backside whooped by the Brits during the Napoleonic area? The same France that got overrun twice (within a few days) by the Germans? The "Grande Nation" which likes to celebrate its military superiority but actually doesn't have anything to celebrate because it usually shies away from taking sides in any potential military conflicts?

It's true, France is a beautiful country but its indigenous population lacks the backbone to say "Stop, enough tolerance. We've got a war to fight."

According to what I've learned about the French these riots are exactly what they deserve. I'd rather it happens there than in the UK or Germany but I can see it spreading. We've got to wait and see where the ugly muslims rear their violent heads next, I guess.Posted by: disillusioned_german at November 4, 2005 09:46 PM

On Ethnic Cleansing....
Some on the left seem to have demonized the phrase "Ethnic Cleansing", as if it is all bad, all the time. Here is a question - if your beautiful nation hosts a disloyal population that would like to see your liberal democracy overtaken by a theocracy that is goverened by the worlds most violent, misogynistic and repressive story book, WHAT SHOULD THE GOOD PEOPLE OF THE NATION DO???
NOthing!!! That's apparetnly Jacques Chirac's answer. Maybe the good citizens should try to give psychotherapy to these foreign invaders (DeVillepin's answer). OR, maybe the good people should tell the foreign invaders to leave their country, ASAP (my answer)!!!!
Apparently, many French think us Neo-Cons hate France. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH!!!We just can't understand how you French could let one of the worlds most accomplished cultures be threatened to its core by a group that doesn't share your values. what the F@$% is wrong with you. Defend your great nation!!!! It is worth defending!!!!Posted by: templar at November 4, 2005 09:51 PM

Also, to Bob 86
The "Palestinians" rejected the partition of the land on NO LESS then 3 separte historic occasions. First, in 1948, when the Jews accepted the partition plan, the Arabs declared War - oh, by the way THAT ALONE SHOULD NEGATE THE ORIGINAL PLAN.
Then after Israel's victory in 1967, they again offered the "Palestinians" most of the west bank. The arab leage responded with its three NO's. Again, this negates the original plan.
Then, under Bill clinton, "Palestinians" reject the Barak plan. One Year later, Arafat asks for Barak plan back.(Read Bill's book, nitwit) Three Strikes - YEEEEERRRR OOUUUUTT!!!
I know, you libs think the paleys can side with NAZIS, COMMUNIST RUSSIA, NASSER, SADDAM, OSAMA, and should STILL get a state. Sorry dude, in the real world you make such bad decisions, your people pay a heavy price.Posted by: templar at November 4, 2005 10:02 PM

bob86 sez:

"If you want to look at history, then lets not forget that the only reason that america got its independence was because of france."

Baloney, Bobbie. America fought for its own Independence, and if ANY outside influence was the REASON for its success it was probably a just and merciful God. If God had no part, then the victory is in superior tactics, and American frontier marksmanship. The army and the militia were composed mostly of farmers, because that was the majority of the population. Every farmer had a musket and knew how to use it. Even today, the American farmer is damn well armed.

As for your history, you need to go back to school. The only French contribution of substance was gunpowder. They had it, we needed it, they sold it to us. The great French "heroes" turned out to be mostly pains in the ass, much like the present bunch.Posted by: texan at November 4, 2005 10:13 PM

Mr Spencer said above:

Andalusia was no proto-multiculturalist paradise

Exactly right. Andalusia, as are all Islamic societies, a mono cultural tyranny.

The more I read of Islam and Islamics (especially devouring V.S. Naipaul) the more obvious it becomes that George Orwell based his gloom depiction of the future world on an Islamic world.

In the Muslim world, slavery is freedom, war is peace.

For Muslims the only problem with the world is that we all aren't slaves of Allah, yet they somehow think that if we were all slaves of Allah, the bridges would still be built, cars would still be built, and food would pour from the horn of cornucopia.. that somehow they can get what they need and want "anywhere" without any thought of the processes, intellectual and physical, that bring such delights and necessities into being.

The Islamic ethic is the exact opposite of the Protestant work ethic, and it shows.

It never dawns on anyone, especially the dhimmi's in the west, to notice that the more religious a culture, the more backwards and underdeveloped they are, take Pakistan and Afghanistan for instance, and then Malaysia and Indonesia.

Were it not for the Chinese and Indians of Malaysia and the Christians of Indonesia, those countries too would be as filthy, backward and swamped in ignorance as Pakistan and Afghanistan (although they are tied for runner up).Posted by: Nariz at November 4, 2005 10:34 PM

pissedoffcanadian:

Back then when the "Yugoslav War" was raging I was totally reliant on German MSM and, as usual, they fed us crap. Since the Internet Revolution I've found other sources (and like-minded people like you) who are looking into things more deeply.

I know the topic has been discussed plenty of times but how can the Left demonise Slobodan Milosevic - a democratically elected president - and stay quiet when the US and Britain (and others) waged an unjust war against a democratic country whilst rooting against the US before the Iraq war? I don't think morals have anything to do with it because if there's something the Left doesn't have it's moral integrity.Posted by: disillusioned_german at November 4, 2005 11:24 PM

TIME TO WAKE UP TO REALITY!!!

Allah is SATAN and one of his "prophet's" was Muhammed!

DO NOT FOOL YOURSELVES ANY LONGER PEOPLE!

The time is ripe for YOU to choose how you are going to be forgiven of your sins.

You might think you are sinless, but just go through some of the Ten Commandments and YOUR SIN will become apparent to you! For sin entered the world through one man ADAM, and from there sin spread to all men.

I admit right here in this forum that I am a sinner because i have broken GOD's law eg. do not give false testimony(lie), and do not steal. And these are only two of the Ten Commandments.

But, i and many other people get, and so can YOU get, forgiveness by turning to the ONLY true GOD YHWH, through HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, who was crucified on the cross and resurrected Himself on the third day for YOUR SINS! Read in the book of John Chapter3 Verse16, in any Holy Bible.

Remember that God made a promise that if you seek, you will find! (Matthew 7:7)

and i beg YOU, please SEEK FOR THE TRUTH!!!

Posted by: DiscipleofJesusChrist at November 5, 2005 12:45 AM

Sonofwalker you are right lets hope this truly is the start.

We could get it over much quicker if the french would show some backbone, but I am afraid they will back down and appease and we will have to wait till next summer.

Actually I am impressed by the Jihadis tactics, urban warfare in the weakest euro country, this is probably their best chance of establishing a beach head on the continent.

They know that the chances of success are improved by using the cover of the paris ghettos coupled with the lack of response that would be inevitable from the french authoraties.

Are you ready for a war?Posted by: km at November 5, 2005 01:16 AM

Am i feeling schadenfreude?
Is it not poetic justice that the french government who for so long denigrated israel and its leaders are now facing the same problem. A two state solution ! Oh those evil Israelis who could not live hand in hand with their muslim brethren and refused them "the right of return".
now their idiocy is bearing fruit and the faux penseurs of the fashionable left will have to radicalise even further to justify their ideas and policies.
And those who ask for a seperate Islamic state within France are asking for a Hudna,a stepping stone, for eventually only the total submission of France to Islam will satisfy them. however many Gaza strips France might create, they will be used as terrorist bases to launch attacks on "NON muslim France.
Posted by: chevalier de st george at November 5, 2005 01:43 AM

To Cato the Elder. There is a big difference between the Latino immigrants to the US and the Muslim immigrants who have invaded Europe. The fundamental difference being that the Latino is a Christian,the second generation assimilates with the US population and they believe in the American dream.Most of the second generation is in white collar jobs. Whereas the second generation Muslims in Europe hardy have assimilated and are completely against assimilation as their religion prohibits them doing so. Look at what happened on 7/7 in London. Middle class muslims born and bred in England perpetrated the most heinous of crimes, attacking & killing innocents in the country of their birth.

The Latinos do nothing of that over in the US. Now the same thing is happennig in France, Denmark, Norway, Swden. Spain etc. that is because these immigrants to the west have one thing in common - Islam, which is not compatible with democracy. People raised on submission to theocracy could never entertain a democratic, individualistic thought, could never respect individual human life, could ever countenance the existence (let alone "right to exist") of any other creed than their seventh-century evil demonology"

It doesn't seem possible for Muslims to accept and erect a democratic country in an Islamic culture. The two are antithetical. Would be like trying to build a roof with a saboteur blowing up each pillar as it goes up.Posted by: faqi at November 5, 2005 01:54 AM

754 cars set on fire last night, 203 arrested, hopefully locked up and the key thrown away or better still deported. My wife is translating that so no errors with my poor French this time.

Apologies for misunderstanding that the women was directly targetted. Her daughter was shown on TF1 last night wearing the a head covering.

Nothing said yet by the Government about what it is going to do.

My wife heard on the radio one of the youths demanding the following:

1. Find out what happened to those two youths
2. Apologise to the Muslims
3. Give them jobs

As far as I can see this is as sonofwalker see's it, this is the start, how it moves from here is whether the 5th Republic dies or continues.

The issue here is simple, many of the immigrants refused to be intergrated because of their faith, secondly there is discrimination, but again it is due to the baggage created by Islam, it makes many unemployable.Posted by: Daffersd at November 5, 2005 04:45 AM

Re: It is now clear that a good portion of France's Muslims not only refuse to assimilate into "the superior French culture," but firmly believe that Islam offers the highest forms of life to which all mankind should aspire.

The delimma that faces France right now is how to deal with an Islamic religion which supports the notion that Muslims are superior to non-Muslims and have a divine right to impose their " highest forms of life " on the rest of us.

The Koran provides the inspiration and justification for Muslims to become hostile and violent towards non-Muslims.

France has strong military capabilities but a timid and inefective leader who is afraid to exercise the French military to restore the country back to order.

Will the French sit calmly among themselves watching as another 700 cars get torched by Muslim youths in their streets? Should they tolerate another French woman being doused with gasoline and nearly burned to a crisp?

I hope that the French begin to understand that sometimes force is needed to stop senseless violence. Otherwise violence will brood and fester throughout their society.

It is time for the French to realize that more action is needed to respond to raging Muslims who are seeking to overrun French society.Posted by: Johnathan at November 5, 2005 05:53 AM

Last night while cleaning out the basement I came across a copy of the French magazine GEO,(Fev 2005) you can describe it like a french National Geographic. Anyway, there was an interesting article about the French Assyro-Chaldean community, its a small community about 20,000 and hails from Iraq and Turkey. They came to France with nothing but today they could be judged a success story. Its a real shame that France didn't confine its immigrants from pools of people like these. The Armenians, Vietnamese, Jews, eastern and southern Europeans, Arab Christians, Christian West Indians and Africans have more or less become French, while the Magrebies, even after three generations, are still on the margins of society and are responsible for much of France's social ills.Posted by: spencerd at November 5, 2005 07:34 AM

Comments
(Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Jihad Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.)

Send in the friggin military. How hard can it be to control your own streets? France has one of the largest militaries on earth. If they're not going to use them for this, what are they going to use them for?Posted by: Ryan at November 4, 2005 07:26 PM

Ryan,

According to Wikopedia, France has an Army of about 300,000 men. That means about 100,000 or less actual combat troops. Enough to do the job but hardly an army of great stature.Posted by: a10billr at November 4, 2005 07:42 PM

First, the jihadists were successful in creating "Palestine" from Israeli territory.

Now, on former French territory, behold as the jihadists create the new nation of "Franco-nstine".

a10billr, it doesn't really matter if the MSM continues to ignore what is going on in Paris. Let them stay in denial, and full steam ahead! Some city has to be the first to fall in order to show the results of Shar'ia, and better Paris than Detroit.Posted by: special_guest at November 4, 2005 07:44 PM

Civil war.

I must admit that it started 20 years earlier than what I expected (and I expected it to start in Britain), but other than that everything that I have been saying for the past two years is becoming reality.

Expect more of this in a few other countries (namely Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Britain, Italy and Spain).Posted by: cruzado at November 4, 2005 07:46 PM

In all the sadness, horror and disgust, amid the choking fumes and searing flames, I have to say the idea of a "two-state solution" for France is one of the funnier chickens to come home and roost in Europe in some time.

If it's all right for the Israelis, it must be fine for France.

Oh, my poor diaphragm.Posted by: Cato the Elder at November 4, 2005 07:47 PM

Trust me a10billr the fyrd of England have been aroused. In any pub you go in now this is one of the greatest issues. It just needs a leader or something which tips the scales over and you'll see just how far you can push the English.Posted by: And did those feet? at November 4, 2005 07:56 PM

fyrd? I really hope the English can purge their nation of Islam. London is rife with the snakes and they have Galloway (Soon to be jailed-I hope)with them. The mayor of London too, from what I've read.Posted by: a10billr at November 4, 2005 08:02 PM

Well this is very similar to the situation in occupied Cyprus and Nato occupied Kosovo. A hostile muslim minority has taken power in an area that they historically never lived in. The only difference is western dhimmi governments helped the Muslims in the previous conflicts. Lets see if Chirac is at least consistent and demands autonomy for the rioters.Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 4, 2005 08:03 PM

I have been waiting for the reposting of Hugh Fitzgerald's Douce France, and haven't seen it yet. The above article in particular calls out for a rereading of Hugh's warning and prophecy.

May the leaders and peoples of Europe tune in before its too late.

Here it is. Posted, DhimmiWatch, June 23, 2004

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/002334.phpPosted by: JTF at November 4, 2005 08:03 PM

Also, what is the connection between Algerian Muslims and France ? Why are there so many (poor, uneducated?) Muslim immigrants in Europe ? On what basis did they immigrate ?

Thanks.Posted by: lazysusan at November 4, 2005 08:13 PM

Chirac is ready to pimp out his nation. He didn't really think that opposing the war would keep his country safe from Muslim extremists? He's such an idiot!Posted by: delia7 at November 4, 2005 08:17 PM

Lazysusan, I could say "look it up," but then there's you're nickname... ;^)

Andalusia is today a region in Spain. Historically, it describes the greater part of the territory captured and held by jihad conquest until the Muslims ("Moors") were expelled by Their Catholic Majesties Ferdinand and Isabella in 1492. Known as "al-Andalus" by the Muslims, it is part of the lost territory (eternally Muslim, because once Muslim) that Osama and his buddies in all seriousness hope to recover.

And in all seriousness, they may yet do so.Posted by: Cato the Elder at November 4, 2005 08:23 PM

Chirac and his henchmen will the pay price for appeasing these muslim terrorist! l think this time they will have to save themselves. or maybe the UN can send in some peace keepers. and maybe they will be asked for a two state road map quest. mmmmm do you think they have enough crusader blood left in them to kick out the muslim threat?
l have my doubts, all the good ones with crusader bloodlines left hundreds years ago.Posted by: Lulu at November 4, 2005 08:38 PM

Marcius Porcius Cato (Cato the Elder...I did look this one up :)). Thanks for explaining.

Now if you could also explain the connection of so many Muslim immigrants in Europe ? How/Why were they allowed to immigrate if they were not skilled workers (poor French suburbs?). What did France think it would gain by that and didnt they know they could lose a lot ? (Like most of the immigration in US is of techies who contribute positively to the society.)Posted by: lazysusan at November 4, 2005 08:38 PM

Which will come first to stop all this madness, the French military or the moderate Muslim?

I am dead serious when I say the only thing I give an F about now is the Luxemberg Garden and the Louvre and since Muslims are capable of high architecture and design, I am sure the garden will be fine, even prosper. But please move the Louvre to New York in exchange for the UN.Posted by: tokyobk at November 4, 2005 08:49 PM

those sick North African, damn them for being angry about the inequality they face in france. damn them for not agreeing with the new french law which denies there girls to wear a hijab in school or public buildings. they should be more like the jews. the jews, why they bent over backwards and accepted nazi laws. they wore yellow stars, and didnt even complain. these are true citizens. why they even walked them-selves into the gas chambers with out a fight. it only every muslim could take the example of the jews.Posted by: bob86 at November 4, 2005 08:52 PM

I am sorry that the french are having to deal with this now..

but i am also afraid if america doesnt wake up
THIS will HAPPEN here...

And i will tell the truth..
The cause is not poverty..
It is not the Isralies...
It is not the infidels in iraq..

It is
ISLAM...
Posted by: jingoist at November 4, 2005 09:06 PM

bob86:

You're so right. Don't those damned pork-eating, wine-swilling, prophet-mocking French know that certain areas of their country are no longer theirs?

There's France, and then there's Jihadistan. On the map, the blotches formed by the latter bear a striking resemblance to the pox.Posted by: Cato the Elder at November 4, 2005 09:10 PM

Re: "to be reorganized on the basis of the "millet" system of the Ottoman Empire

A possible silver lining in this cloud would be no more French sponsored welfare payments to the layabouts. I wonder how long they would remain if they had to get out and create something for gainful employment.Posted by: johnb at November 4, 2005 09:18 PM

i honestly think that it is truly sad that after over two thousand years of oppression, that parts of the jewish community feel that it is okay to do onto others as was done onto them.Posted by: bob86 at November 4, 2005 09:19 PM

Relax, people! Some French journo on Hannity and Colmes just reassured me that the violence is France (so far) has got nothing to do with religion and / or (radical) Islam. Things are looking up again. Let's make a tea and calm down then.Posted by: disillusioned_german at November 4, 2005 09:29 PM

Franco-Arabia. First Euro-Disney, now this. I suppose the US will have to go in and save France's ass again like we did in WWI and WWII. Or maybe we should let them work this one out by themselves.Posted by: Bohemond_1069 at November 4, 2005 09:32 PM

Ah.....the muslim troll is reincarnated as bob86. I think muslims have gotten about all the mileage out of the Jewish persecution / holocost comparisons that you can get. And by the way, don't you think "soccer mom" sounds more apple-pie american than "bob86"?Posted by: Infidel33 at November 4, 2005 09:32 PM

Hey Bob86... You anti-semite bastard. Are you just a liberal or are you actually a jihadi? If muslims in my country support jihad, thens I support Ethnic cleansing of muslims. and, liberal, too. A third column is just as dangerous as Osama, maybe more so. Am Yisroel chai.Posted by: templar at November 4, 2005 09:39 PM

My call name, "Mont Joie," was a battle cry in the First Crusades, led by the Frankish armies and the Belgian Godfrey de Bouillon. This news almost makes me weep.

Maybe now the French will get their balls back and recall that old battle cry.

For those interested, I heard that "Mont Joie" roughly translated means "I'M GONNA KICK YOUR F--ING MUSLIM ASS!"

But I could be mistaken.Posted by: MontJoie at November 4, 2005 09:39 PM

If they don't like it in France, and don't want to move back to their home countries (where there obviously aren't as many cars and buses to burn), they could always try ... Gaza!Posted by: Cato the Elder at November 4, 2005 09:45 PM

Basically, these areas have been "no go areas" or "special zones" for years. A French civil servant who was from a Vietnamese background calculated that there were more than 800 of the special zones in 2001. The response of the French government was to no longer keep track of those areas.

I can't blame Chirac on his position about the Iraq war. Heck, I didn't think we could ever build a democratic Iraq at the time. Mssrs. Fitzgerald and Spencer didn't think so either.

But what Chirac has to do is not to give into the Muslims.Posted by: DavidE at November 4, 2005 09:51 PM

Now that the Maginouex Line has been surpassed, it's time for France to surrender and start collaberating. Perhaps if we offer the Jihadi's Poland they will stop there, give peace a chance will ya?Posted by: kevin at November 4, 2005 10:11 PM

This turn of events, though probably a bit overblown at the moment -- is nevertheless STUNNING VINDICATION of the magnificent JihadWatch/DhimmiWatch sages -- Robert Spencer, et al -- who have had such clear vision in seeing all that is now coming to pass --Posted by: jsla at November 4, 2005 10:23 PM

Don't forget; this all started in Kosovo.

Milosovich could have stopped this islamic march through Europe stone-cold-dead in its tracks.

However, when the British, French, and especially the Americans started re-defining civilian targets as military targets; the game was up.

This is the result. If France trys to stop the march; perhaps we will bomb Paris just as we did in BelgradePosted by: witness at November 4, 2005 10:23 PM

Witness: Well put. But for Blair and Clinton it was all about appeasing Muslims back then by attack a sovereign European! nation... We're reaping the "rewards" now. If the Muslims didn't know back then that they'd be protected at all times they certainly know it now. I've written before that Milosevic might once in the distant future be considered a saviour of Western values but right now he's on trial in The Hague.Posted by: disillusioned_german at November 4, 2005 10:58 PM

Witness and disillusioned German I couldnt agree with you guys more. i am still choked up about Milosevic being tried. I wish the same fate upon Chirac. If the French don't wake up after this then I would rather see a complete capitulation of the French. This way hopefully other countries will finally see what is going on.Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 4, 2005 11:16 PM

Question for Mr. Spencer & the people of jwatch.

How PC can we expect the History Channels "The Crusades" special this Sunday? Any thoughts? I think it's funny they have a "test your crusade knowledge" with a whole 2 questions.

http://www.historychannel.com/crusades/sweepstakes/registration.jspPosted by: flyingcarpetdust at November 4, 2005 11:27 PM

"yet they somehow think that if we were all slaves of Allah, the bridges would still be built, cars would still be built, and food would pour from the horn of cornucopia.."

Actually, a global Islamic Caliphate will provide lots of sumptuous luxuries and technologies -- for a few at the top: on the basis of a spectacular system based upon mass slavery and dhimmitude taxation: a regression to the 1,001 Arabian Nights-type Sultanates of the "Golden Age" of Islam.Posted by: Dr. Pepper at November 4, 2005 11:31 PM

This looks like the beginning of what many of us have secretly hoped for, and that many of us have never confessed to wanting: this is the time the Muslims have made a challenge that we either meet or lose forever. There's no backing down anymore. But it's not quite ripe yet. Let it settle over the winter, let the Muslims have time to distill their deeds and expand them in their minds, grow myths around them, and then, come summer when the streets are filled with restless youths itching for a fight, then we'll see the real thing. There's no turning back now. This is our time to shine if we will.

This isn't the place to go on with this train of thought.Posted by: sonofwalker at November 5, 2005 12:06 AM

Yes you're right, there is no God but God, and He sent His Son Jesus Christ to be crucified for our sins. And won't return until Jerusalem is a big enough stone for all the nations.Posted by: flyingcarpetdust at November 5, 2005 01:04 AM

Can anyone share some links about
Kosovo and Slobodan Milosovich?
I haven't heard some of the things
mentioned on this board before. I
have only heard the PC version of
things from NBC back in the day.
Posted by: lonely_soul at November 5, 2005 01:33 AM

lonely: I'm no expert, but I've always found this site interesting.
balkanpeace.org

http://www.balkanpeace.org/destruct/index.shtml

Serbian Orthodox Church v. William Jefferson Clinton

http://www.balkanpeace.org/lan/lan09.shtmlPosted by: flyingcarpetdust at November 5, 2005 01:47 AM

It is time for France to implement the Reconquista plan that was done in Spain in the 1400's and expell all the Muslims. And the rest of Europe would do well to do that before the "riots" aka jihad spreads all over Europe.Posted by: Abby at November 5, 2005 03:21 AM

disillusioned_german I couldnt agree with you more. That is why I can never ever vote for a leftist candidate. They are the ultimate hypocrites. When they talk about morality it is code for their side winning. They hate to Iraq war because bush is waging it. A democrat would be praised for this war in Iraq.Posted by: pissedoffcanadian at November 5, 2005 03:40 AM

Dhimnitude proposals (if this proposal has actually been made) or rumors of such idiotic proposals are making the situation worse. Either the Muslims realize that they will only make their situation worse by all of this or they will keep on rioting until they get all of France.Posted by: DavidE at November 5, 2005 07:40 AM

Alam "has his say" over at Al-BBCeera:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/default.stm

The French must turn over the disputed areas to the people who live there. Only Muslim law and leaders can control this violence. Police action is only making it worse. If they would announce that Imams were in control and send the murderous police home, a new era of peace would begin.

France has been warned. Will they listen? I doubt it.

And this miserable Alam bugger is from London. Europe is doomed.Posted by: 1630r at November 5, 2005 08:47 AM