[NormB]

Let's have a rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!

[ECM]

Does anyone know if the Jesuits are still worth a damn ouside of the US?

[Windsong]

"Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent.

imagine that..

[Pyro7480]

"Those crazy Jesuits" Catholic ping!

[billbears]

Okay rational discussion. The Bible condemns homosexuality. Anyone who condones homosexuality should not teach the Bible nor be a leader in the catholic (little c!!) Church. Discussion over

[hombre_sincero]

start your own homosexual church

If you do not beleive in the Churches Dogma - do what Lucif --- Luther did and break away!

Do NOT pollute the Catholic Church.

[CWW]

First, the estimate that 25 to 50% of the clergy is homosexual is total B.S.

I have met many, many priests in my 43 years, and have only met one who was a homosexual and who was removed for molestation of a minor.

The issue is, of course, is whether a celibate homosexual can be a Catholic priest. An active homosexual cannot given both the unambiguous teachings of scripture and the fact that priests must ovserve a vow of celibacy.

Given the fact that the Church has stated that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered, I don't see how the Church can allow ordination of a celibate homosexual.

That may seem unfair, but the priesthood is not about fairness. It's about representing the message of Christ and providing example of that message.

I pray for those men who struggle with this issue. But I would no more want a homosexual (celibate or otherwise) to be a priest any more than I would want an cleptomaniac to work the jewelry counter at Nordstroms or a reformed alcoholic to work ina bar.

[griz74]

I tought the only sexual orientation appropriate for a priest was the gift of celibacy.

[conserv13]

Let's have a rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!

Good luck with that.

For my part, I have no problem with gay priests and I think the Vatican is wrong in this decision. I'm an ex-Catholic.

I do think there is something wrong though if 25-50% of priests are gay, when only 10% of the general population is gay.

[Hat-Trick]

Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years. "I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation," he wrote.

I'm not Catholic, but am curious to know if the Pope has the authority to remove this defender of perversion from the Catholic priesthood? If so, what keeps him from doing it?

Sincerely,

H-T

[kcvl]

The Rev. Gerald Chojnacki, head of the New York Province of the Society of Jesus, said in a letter to his priests that he was asking bishops to tell Vatican officials who are drafting the policy "of the great harm this will cause many good priests and the Catholic faithful."

Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years.

"I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation," he wrote.

Chojnacki said he would be working with the Conference of Major Superiors, which represents leaders of religious orders in the United States including the Jesuits, Franciscans and others, and with bishops to fight "for the opportunity of a gay person to say yes to God's call in celibate service of priesthood and chaste religious life."

A priest who supports the protest provided the letter to The Associated Press. A spokesman for the New York province did not respond to a request for comment Friday.

A Vatican official said last week that the upcoming "instruction" from the Vatican's Congregation for Catholic Education will reaffirm the church's belief that homosexuals should not be ordained.

[AMERIKA]

snip..

What percentage of priests have a homosexual orientation?
Nobody knows, with any degree of accuracy.

Any discussion of the role of homosexual orientation in the priesthood -- in fact any discussion of clergy abuse itself -- is hampered by a lack of hard, reliable data.

Some estimates of the percentage of current priests with a homosexual orientation:

Analysis of the estimates of others: According to Amanda Ripley of Time Magazine, estimates range from 15% to 50%. 3
According to Bill Blakemore of ABC News, "...nobody knows what percentage of the American priesthood is gay; estimates range from less than 10% to more than 30%." 4

Personal estimates: Richard Sipe, a psychotherapist and former priest, has studied celibacy, chastity, and sexuality in the priesthood for four decades. He has authored three books on the topic. He once estimated that 30% of the priesthood is homosexually oriented. 5 Elsewhere, he is quoted as estimating that between 25% and 45% of American priests are homosexual in orientation. 6 He told the Boston Globe: "If they were to eliminate all those who were homosexually oriented, the number would be so staggering that it would be like an atomic bomb; it would do the same damage to the church's operation...It would mean the resignation of at least a third of the bishops of the world. And it's very much against the tradition of the church; many saints had a gay orientation, and many popes had gay orientations. Discriminating against orientation is not going to solve the problem."
Sister Maryanne Walsh, spokesperson for the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, said that it would it be difficult to find evidence to support these Sipe's estimates of the percentage of gay men in the priesthood. She feels that it is also irrelevant. She said: "There’s no real purpose in saying whether someone is homosexual or heterosexual. The issue is whether they can make a commitment [to chastity]." 6
Bishop Jerome Listecki is an auxiliary bishop in Chicago. He estimates that "perhaps more than 10%" of priests have a homosexual orientation." (Emphasis ours). 5
Father Donald Cozzens, an author, psychologist, and Catholic seminary president says that there is such a high percentage of gay priests in the church that he is concerned that “the priesthood is or is becoming a gay profession.” 5 In his book, "The Changing Face of the Priesthood," -- published in the year 2000 -- he estimates that 50% of Roman Catholic priests have a homosexual orientation.
A NBC report on chastity and the clergy found that "anywhere from 23 percent to 58 percent" of the Catholic clergy have a homosexual orientation. 7
Author and sociologist James G. Wolfe estimated that 48.5% of priests were gay. 8

Actual surveys: In the Fall of 1999, the Kansas City Star sent a questionnaire to 3,000 priests in the U.S. 73% did not reply. The low response rate could be anticipated. One would expect homosexuals and bisexuals to be reluctant to respond to the questionnaire since it deals with such a sensitive issue, and originated from a newspaper. Homosexual and bisexual priests would probably be less likely to reply to the survey. Among the 801 priests who did reply: 75% said they had a heterosexual orientation;
15% homosexual;
5% bisexual. 9

During 1990, Rev. Thomas Crangle, a Franciscan priest in Passaic, N.J., mailed a survey to 500 randomly selected priests. Of the 398 responses, about 45% said that they were gay. 10


Conclusion: If we assume that all of the estimates are of equal validity, then about 33% of priests have a homosexual orientation -- about one in three.

[GovernmentShrinker]

Let's have a rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!

Don't hold your breath. Among other things, that would require:

1) The massive number of gay priests to ask themselves honestly why the heck they want to serve in the priesthood of a church which explicitly condemns them, and

2) The Church to confront the fact that no normal heterosexual male wants to sign up for a life of celibacy, and that its choices are a) maintain the status quo and just look the other way, b) continue to require celibacy but crack down harshly on gay priests, and just suck it up as the already critically short supply of priests rapidly gets at least 25% shorter, while Catholics (and everybody else) remark on the huge exodus and the stark evidence it provides of the large percentage of the priesthood which is gay, or c) refute the pronouncements of a long string of Popes who have declared that celibacy is and always will be essential for priests, and start allowing priests to marry.

[Constantine XIII]

The Pope says "Tough cookies!"

[bkepley]

Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent

..and all of them in the U.S.

[AD from SpringBay]

"I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation,"

I find it insulting to demean the Bible and God's divine will by even hinting that religious leaders, in God's Name, have the wickedness to allow for their own lust and sodomy in the highest calling on this earth. And if that hurts the memory of someone's years of service - boo hoo. It's not about people feeling good about themselves. It's about serving God the way God would be served. We're a bit stupid on this issue. God doesn't have to accept any thing that happens to land on the altar. There will be many in that day who will cry out to God and He will tell them to depart from His presence because He never knew them. This type of thing goes way back - Cain killed his brother out of a jealous rage because his own sacrice was crap and was rejected by God. What we're saying today is that we need to not hurt Cain's memory and say that his sacrifice was ok too. (pardon the scriptural paraphrases)

[John Robertson]

"Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent..."

Estimates that surely were issued by various gay lobbies and the definite minimum of 10 percent of homosexuals in the priesthood. This is abject crap. We cannot have a "rational discussion on homosexuality in the Church!" until we factor OUT all the Catholic bashers, Catholic haters, liberal-agenda and/or gay-agenda opportunists who want nothing more than to tear the institution of the Catholic Church down to BELOW its foundations, then replace it with a more "compassionate" version where at least half the priests will be women and the other half will wear hassocks that end just above their exposed pubic hair and plumbing, because it's really natural, and aren't all men really gay anyway?

The homosexual lobby and the MSM media (hmmm...one in the same?) have convinced a majority of Americans that homosexuals number 10+ percent of the male population is gay, when the real number is less than 3 percent. Now let's do some math. If their 10+ percent is actually less than one third of that...and if the article's 40 percent of gay priests is reduced by a bit over two-thirds, we arrive at the 10 percent or so of gay priests I cited above.

Scientific proof that the Catholic Church, for all its sins, still really scares the crap out of the Godless moral relativists, and that they'll do anything to chip more credibility away from it.

And for those here who would bring up "all the incidents of sexual molestation" among priests, always remember that the media created an hysterical whirlwind on this issue much like they did with the McMartin preschool case in California a while back.

Yes, there are predatory priests who will burn in hell for their sins and broken trust. And for every one of them there are hundreds, perhaps thousands, of priests who have to go through their days knowing that many people, Catholic or not, think that they're actually homosexual child molesters. But they keep going, literally doing the Lord's Work.

Remember: the general impression, especially among non-Catholics, is that Catholic priests are overwhelmingly gay predators. Yet, even during the top of the media frenzy, the actual percentage of accused American priests was less than ONE PERCENT. You would have thought it was every damned one of them.

I am grateful for our new pope, who is pushing us back to a more conservative Church.

[StonyBurk]

OK Scripture declares (and Scripture is the basis for the
Church) Scripture declares such behavior( a man to lay with a man as he would a woman) to be "abomination" worthy of death. The Apostle Paul rightly called such behvior "unnatural" (Romans chapter 1) and says those who take part in such or who take pleasure in those who do such are equally guilty (Romans chapter 1) SOunds like a church is Apostate if it adopts policy contrary to Scripture.

[ZULU]

The Jesuits have gone from the shock troops of the counter-reformation to the schock troops of the liberal anti-Biblical bunch.

[libstripper]

Chojnacki said he would be working with the Conference of Major Superiors, which represents leaders of religious orders in the United States including the Jesuits, Franciscans and others, and with bishops to fight "for the opportunity of a gay person to say yes to God's call in celibate service of priesthood and chaste religious life."

If they're engaged in "celibate service of priesthood and chaste religious life," then why have so many Jesuits died of AIDS? Homosexuality is a man engaging in homosexual relations with other men. Mere thoughts don't do it, actions do. Hence, one can expect the vast majority of homosexual priests to be practicing homosexuals and to present a serious danger to the church, especially when they start urging the altar boys to "celebrate diversity."

[TexanToTheCore]

The Pope is looking from the viewpoint of 2,000 years of history, a box much bigger than ours that is confined to the present.

Within the above context, this problem and solution may be quite a bit smaller than we can see, a blip in the history of the Church.

This Pope will do what is best for Jesus, His Father and His Church.