Posted on 09/29/2005 1:41:21 PM PDT by jmc1969
It was meant to be a moment of reconciliation between the old regime and the new, a gathering of nearly 1,000 former Iraqi army officers and tribal leaders in Baghdad to voice their concerns over today's Iraq. But it did not go as planned.
General after general rose to his feet and raised his voice to shout at the way Iraq was being run and to express his fear of escalating war. "They were fools to break up our great army and form an army of thieves and criminals," said one senior officer. "They are traitors," added another.
General Salam Hussein Ali sprang to his feet and bellowed that there was "no security, no electricity and no clean water and no government". The only solution was to have the old Iraqi army back in its green uniforms, not those supplied by the Americans.
General Sammarai had called for criticism but seemed dismayed at its ferocity, at one moment exclaiming "this is chaos," though he later apologised and said he supposed it was democracy. He said most of the trouble in Iraq was caused by foreign terrorists such as Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, prompting another officer to mutter: "I don't think Zarqawi will threaten us because we are against occupation."
In conversation, the officers made clear that they considered armed resistance to the occupation legitimate.
The past three years have been a disaster for the old Iraqi army. The US viceroy, Paul Bremer, disbanded the army and security forces in May 2003. In a single stroke, hundreds of thousands of professional soldiers were out of a job.
General Sammarai concluded: "All the officers are against the American occupation. But when they come to my office they say that if the Americans leave there will be civil war."
(Excerpt) Read more at belfasttelegraph.co.uk ...
Oh yes, what a great Army that was. . .for our Army to use as target practice. No really, how the former Iraqi officers long for the days of a professional Army of tortures and rapists, dems were the good ole days.
On a serious note, disbanding the Iraqi Army was a mistake IMO, but even if it were kept in tact, getting rid of the hardcore Baathists within it would have been a bitch.
There is some truth to this statement - Many Operators on the ground were against this decision / plan - (yet higher-ups pushed it through).
With that said, it was obvious to all that a certain level of cleansing was surly needed within the ranks of the former Iraqi Army before allowing others to stay on the job.
This was a tough call from the start. But it was definitely made farther up the chain of command then it should have been (at least in absolute terms).
"They were fools to break up our great army and form an army of thieves and criminals," said one senior officer. "They are traitors," added another.
These comments are from the same army officers that cut off hands, murdered thousands, raped and tortured scores of Iraqis. Comments like this make me wish I was back in the game. I would have a special delivery for each and every one of these animals.
Take all of them out and shoot'em. Starting over would be more productive.
Wolfawitz was behind disbanding the Army mostly because Chalabi convinced him it was a good idea.
"Great army"? Which "great army" would that be? We kicked their a$$es and the remnants melted away.
Yeah we should really pay a lot of attention to Ex Bathists that helps Saddam fill all those mass graves.
Agreed. Duffawitz and Chalabi were two of the bigger problems / distractions early on -
Chalabi caused a number of unnecessary problems (if you'd call them that) for a couple of our ODA units very early on.
This is a total crock the overwhelming majority of the soldiers were conscripted shia muslims who were forced into the military, they would simply lay down their weapons and surrender or leave the battlefield and go home. They had zero allegiance to Saddam and his army.
That left the officers who were sunni's who were nothing but yes men, because anything but being a yes man would get you executed. Officers seen as too powerful by Saddam were routinely rounded up and shot.......
It was no longer Saddam's Army by that time - It was becoming the *new* Iraqi Army - And keeping these people paid and off the streets (along with giving them a sense of purpose and responsibility for the *new* Iraq) could have helped tremendously.
The majority (vast majority) of SOF in Country early on were against the plan that was implemented to completely disband the old (defeated) Iraqi Army.
Well perhaps you are right about giving them something to do but the article said "professional soldiers". The fact is most of them didn't want to be in the army to begin with and left on their own accord.
And the officers were the slime of the Baath party for the most part, There is no way of knowing if keeping the army would have made one iota of difference. All this is a exercise in second guessing and revisionism.........
I actually think that disbanding the army was the best thing to do. The Iraqi army has a record of being just a group of thugs and incompetents. I'm not convinced that keeping it intact would have put us in a better position than just scrapping it and trying to create a healthier core of decent soldiers.
Just my opinion, however.
I wonder how many war crimes these professional officers have committed over the years?
A professional military doesn't surrender to CNN reporters.
Man there is no telling as to the war crimes question, but with hundreds of thousands in mass graves it surely is a large number.
As far as the surrender stories the one that I still laugh at was during the first Gulf War. The one where the predator UAV was flying over a large garrison of soldiers and they came out waving a white flag.
I laughed until I cried the great Saddams army had surrendered to a unmanned, unarmed spy plane. I'll never forget the soldiers talking who were flying the Predator. The first on said "hey what are they doing" then someone answered "I'm not sure what does he have in his hand". Then they both started laughing and said "they are surrendering".
Yeah what a "professional army".......
Professional soldiers????
Doesn't Wolfowitz have his own brain ?
Of course he does, I am just telling you that the word has long been that he was up in the air on the matter until Chalabi convinced him it was a good idea.
This is just not an accurate statement - The fact is there are correct principles that need (and can) be applied to help either fight an insurgency or help to stop one from occurring.
Many of these same people we through out (and caused ill will with) who were part of the Iraqi Army we have since brought back in to the new Iraqi Army...only we did this 6,8, 12 months later and asked them to do what they could have been doing from the very beginning.
Another principle that was broke was the notion that higher-ups (way away from the actual battle field) know better then the operators working in Country (many of these operators mind you, who were working in Iraq prior to the actual war beginning). Those operators knew more about the actualities on the ground then those higher-ups could dream of.
Duffawitz didn't have a clue what he was talking about yet he was pushing policy down the military's throat! (bad move!).
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