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To: KMAJ2
Without the line item veto, it is virtually impossible to eliminate pork which is never submitted on its own, but attached to important bills in deals for votes between members of Congress.

Nonsense. He hasn't even raised any protests about it. How committed do you think he is to doing something about it when he hasn't even acknowledged it as a problem? Do you have any explanation at all for his bizarre reluctance to take Congress to task for it?

Clinton's last budget, FY 2001, non-security related discretionary spending increased 15%

More of the selective, non-big-picture dishonesty that you accuse me of. In Clinton's first three years, non-defense discretionary spending went down 0.7%. In GWB's first three years, it went up 20%. That's not counting the increase in mandatory spending resulting from the drug bill.

And it gets even worse when you compare him to Reagan. Reagan offset increases in military spending with decreases in non-defense discretionary spending, and that was with a Democrat Congress. Bush and the Republican Congress increased them both together. How anyone can classify such behavior as conservative is beyond me.

You can check out Bush's FY 2006 Budget Proposal here:

Thanks, but I already told you than when his proposals become reality, that's when I'll reevaluate.

The Department of Education falls under discretionary spending. But if you want to lose elections, just try to advocate for cutting all federal education spending.

LOL! Reagan was even able to win Massachusetts on the platform of getting rid of the DOE. Certainly the Massachusetts of 1980 isn't more conservative than the entire U.S. of 2005. Also more recently, in 1995 the H.R. approved a budget plan to eliminate that department, and it didn't result in any kind of public outcry. That's because people simply don't care about federal involvement in education. They're quite accustomed to the notion that it's handled at the state and local level and, if you asked them, they would probably prefer not to have their school systems run from Washington.

This of course is above and beyond the fact that cutting federal education spending isn't at issue here, because Bush ballooned its budget well beyond what any Democrat president would have gotten away with with a Republican Congress breathing down his neck, and I think you know it.

86 posted on 09/30/2005 12:50:45 PM PDT by inquest (FTAA delenda est)
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To: inquest

What is he going to do ? Veto a bill that has most of what he wants in it ? Alienate enough of the republicans in Congress that he cannot maintain the majority ? Do you understand the political process at all ? You tell me how he is supposed to chastise those within his party and not have them say 'screw you' when he wants something from them ?

Clinton's last budget is relevant because he knew he would not have to answer for it, and the republican Congress allowed it. Also, your figures for Clinton's first three years are distorted because you are including intelligence cuts and other security program cuts that do not fall under military spending. You come off sounding like a Clinton apologist.

You simply cannot break from your narrow thought process, it is not non-defense/military discretionary spending that is the category to be used, it is non-security discretionary spending (which adds intelligence and Homeland Security programs that do not fall under military aegis), under Bush that area DID NOT go up 20% in the first three years. I provided you the statistics. You are mixing apples and oranges by including security related spending in your statistic. I have already decried the Prescription Drug Bill, it stinks, so we agree on that, but I also understand the politics involved in removing it from the political debate in 2004. I also realize that it is much smaller (half to one third the size) than what Kerry was running on.

Under what delusional world can you claim Reagan offset increases in military spending ? The deficit and debt under Reagan grew faster than it has under Bush, that is a fact.

And then you totally ignore the last two FY budgets (2005 & 2006).

Regarding education, the political atmosphere has changed drastically since Reagan ran on that platform, the electorate is much more polarized, the swing voters have become a much narrower segment of the population. If you want to win in today's political climate, you cannot cede one inch of ground to an opponent. Bush's education spending is another aspect I disagree with him on, but compared to entitlement programs, it amounts to very little.

The conservative focus needs to be on social security and medicare/medicaid reform. And sadly, the republican Congress has dropped the ball. That doesn't mean a blanket condemnation, there are members who are putting their money where their mouth is, just not enough of them.


87 posted on 09/30/2005 3:05:13 PM PDT by KMAJ2 (Freedom not defended is freedom relinquished, liberty not fought for is liberty lost.)
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