Posted on 09/24/2005 2:09:01 AM PDT by Crackingham
“Terrible things are going to happen to our troops in any case, so there is no signficiant down-side if we do at least some of these things to our own prisoners.”
If people are really satisfied with this argument, in appears likely that nothing I can say (or more to the point, nothing that’s said by members of the US military who also question these tactics) is likely to change their minds.
The name of one of the intelligence people was PFC Joe Schmuchatelli. Is this guy related to John Kerry? It sure sounds like he wants to write a book and then run for office in Massachussets on the backs of dead Americans.
Our troops are treated far worse when captured. We can only wish this was all that would be done to them. Watch the beheading videos and compare them to what is described in the NYSlimes. A Marine friend of mine who was in Nasiriyah told me that the troops (this is the Marines, I don't know about the other branches) are told to run and get shot if capture is imminent. Better than the death that awaits them. I have no other source for this than his word, but I believe it.
This is interesting! I never knew that the Iraqis had captured any US troops except one (Maudling?), about whose fate nothing is known. Have you a link? How many US soldiers have been beheaded like this?
Neither do I. The article appears to be based on a report from Human Rights Watch, which is anything but an objective observer.
And from the experience of the brave and handsome Sgt. Phantom, I know that the 82nd ABN takes allegations of detainee abuse very seriously...so I'm also having a hard time believing that this Capt. Fishback was stymied by his superiors in reporting any alleged abuse for 17 months, and then was forced to contact various senators.
The portions of the article that were posted did not state the battalion to which the soldiers alleging these activites are supposed to be assigned. And I refuse to give the NYT a hit, so I won't be following the link to the entire article. However, has anyone read the full article? If I can find out the unit that was supposedly involved, I can inquire of the brave and handsome Sgt. Phantom as to what he would know of the situation.
Why on earth would such a troublemaker be allowed even to train for SF?
Shouldn't this captain be brought up on charges? Court-martialed and demoted?
VPI
Yes because what is he doing discussing this with a Newspaper. Moreover, has he taken this to his Superiors? Finally, if so and the Capt was not happy, then why did he not request a transfer?
Do not mistake my comparison for acceptance of torture.
Favorable treatment of most prisoners has served us in good
stead in past wars and the Iraq conflict in particular.
Some prisoners cannot be handled with kid gloves however.
We have been fortunate in that no numbers of Allied troops
have been captured, for beatings and pyramids would be the
least of the horrors inflicted upon infidels. (As we have
already seen with others held captive by the fanatics.)
Oh good, here's another candidate for the layoffs. It's people like this writer who are sending the Times stock down the toilet.
Well, Captain Fishback needs to stand for Courts Martial. I'm sure he has a proper papertrail to back up his assertions that he "tried" to report this.
That's the point I was making. If this controversy had been ongoing when he applied for SF, he would never have been accepted. So what happened during the SF Qualification Course that made him decide to make allegations of wrong doing against the unit he commanded 17 months earlier?
Some prisoners cannot be handled with kid gloves however.
Over on another board I read there is a series of posts by an Army Lt. who’s getting ready for his second deployment to Iraq. I really like this guy – he enlisted , worked his way up Sgt., decided to make the Army his career, went through OCS (or whatever they call it these days) and got his commission. He’s smart, dedicated, thoughtful and deeply patriotic - *exactly* they sort of soldier I want defending my country and my values. If this man and people like him can't make Iraq work, than it’s broke beyond the ability of a military force to fix it.
But right now he’s incredibly frustrated by the difficulty of getting solid guidance on the question of what sort of behavior is and is not acceptable in Iraq – he wants a bright line at which he can refuse to order, or to carry out orders to engage in, what he believes is illegal “torture” of detainees.
And isn’t a theoretical question: during his previous tour his BDE Commander was relieved over torture for incidents in which he (the BDE Commander) believed he was acting within the guidelines and with proper authority.
This is the practical cost of playing fast and loose with the standards of behavior expected of US troops in Iraq: they must worry not only about being ambushed by the enemy, but about being ambushed by their own chain of command.
And it’s no solution just to decide that we will always decide in favor of out troops whatever their actions, because such an environment some people will step so far over the line that there is no question that they have completely crossed it, and we start reading reports like:
'In two incidents described in the reports, bound detainees were shot and killed by soldiers.'
And how do you spin that?
“The bastards were chewing on our rope."?
So even putting aside the other practical aspects of the use of torture, and not worrying about protecting the rights of Iraqis, it seems to me that the only way we can protect our own people is to abide by the rules of the GC – or something much like them – in all of our dealings with detainees.
As I said, this story is a fake. Capt. Fishback? C'mon, and like you said, what unit is he from and what are the specifics for his motivations to do this.
Like I also said earlier, this is all giving aid and comfort to the enemy and. The Times has a history for helping out our enemies. They completely covered up millions upon millions that were killed under Stalin; the millions that were exterminated by systematically starving the Kulacs.
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