[inquest]

[If the outcome isn't any different from what would have happened anyway, then it's pretty meaningless to talk about it being a design.]

Again, so what?

So what that you're making a distinction without a difference? There's such a thing as reality outside a dictionary. You're treating words as ends in themselves, rather than means to an end. Their purpose is to communicate an idea that actually signifies something.

[edsheppa]

So what that you're making a distinction without a difference?

No, I am making a distinction but somehow failing to communicate it to you. The distinction between design and non-design in otherwise identical circumstances is whether or not the result was intended.

You're treating words as ends in themselves, rather than means to an end.

No, I am trying to make sure you and I mean the same thing by the word design so that we can tell if, as you have asserted, the outcome of an evolutionary process can never be called designed.