Posted on 09/07/2005 4:18:06 PM PDT by Michael Goldsberry
Because THEY talked to the press; I'm sick of whining, period.
"...said Patrick Nichols, a civilian public affairs officer at Pensacola Naval Air Station."
Huh?
They went to the press first; that's why the Navy is responding.
Unless that officer jeopardized your mission by his disobedience.
You'll have to do better than tinfoil. I still love 'ya.
Odds are that the vast majority of those rescued were net tax recipients not net tax payers.
When servicemembers fail to follow an order it is failure to obey an order.
Dereliction of duty is something else. It is possible to be derelict in duty while following orders and it is possible to carry out one's duties and disobey and order.
A duty may be imposed by treaty, statute, regulation, lawful order, standard operating procedure, or custom of the service.
It may be and most certainly is a custom of the naval service to render aid and assistance where required. Rendering such service would be in conformance with the duties of a helicopter pilot. Failure to obey an order to return to base because one is rendering assistnace is a complicated issue, raising the issue of whether the duty to render assistance takes precedent over the order to return to base. Officers including pilots get paid to make such judments. Blind obediance to an order is no defence against dereliction of duty (failure to render assistance).
Individual initiative is why we won WWII and the Germans lost WWII. Citizen soldiers is why our military safeguards democracy rather than overthrow it.
Good order and discipline are part of an effective military, but so are a lot of other things. We are Americans, not goose-stepping fascists.
In short, responsible, mission focused independent thinking is what I want. It is, in fact, modern military doctrine/
"counseled" so that's what the new sensitive military calls it.
Complex operations...I must confess I was not a military type person, a short timer, not a lifer. In my short term I had great appreciation for the lifers but still disdain for most that could subject themselves to the system.
Exactly.
Let's allow the commander to set the width of the line. That's their job, and that's a product of their experience.
I'm glad the pilots aren't in any deep kimshee, but they needed permission to deviate this broadly before they did it. O-3s are NOT prepared to make mission selection decisions on their own.
"Sorry. Whatever this is, it is not dereliction of duty."
It's more like they were just saving gas.
My first few years in I hated to be sat down and given the "Big Picture" talk. I had a better eye for what was really going on then those crusty old farts.
Then one day when I was a little older and a bit higher in rank something we were doing became almost FUBAR because of a young hotshot who knew it all. We recovered because of the experience of all the players but it did cause a few exciting moments.
I sat him down and started to give him a good talking to and I realized it was the "Big Piture" crusty old fart talk. Kinda like when kids grown up and learn "Oh No, I've turned into my parents".
The key to miss steps is how it is handled. In the case of the pilots I think it was handled well. The CO chewed a little butt, got all the unit to refocus on the unit mission and everybody drives on.
To focus on the pilots and make them into heros would send the wrong message to "individuals" in the military.
"To focus on the pilots and make them into heros would send the wrong message to "individuals" in the military."
Thanks for being honest and straight forward...
To my thinking and from experience, there should have never been any public knowledge of any reprimand made public by anyone.
I learned early on to differentiate between the paper shufflers and the doers, the ones that got it done, that you could count on when things turned hairy.
I flew with one that made a three engine bomb run in Korea, against all regulations. With agreement from the crew, he made the run, declared an emergency and landed in South Korea. When he got back to Okie the CO was so "upset" he took him out on a good drunk. Told him to never do it again, nothing was ever put on paper and the CO hung the nickname of "suicide" on him. Suicide was a doer.
I'll bet you'll get a good argument from a Marine 2nd Lieutenant on this dumb statement.
O-1s exist solely for the entertainment of the enlisted ranks. LOL
They'd best be able to outrank an Army Captain, then. 2LTs have leeway, but must stay within their mission parameters. So must their Captains, although CPTs have more wiggle room. LTCs and COLs have even more wiggle room (Sorry - I don't know the Navy rank structure all that well, so I speak in ground-pounder lingo).
The bottom line is this: Significant deviation from one's mission must be authorized by someone who has the big picture in mind. The article says that the one pilot got permission to continue flying rescue missions somewhere in the middle of all this. That permission should have been sought immediately, otherwise the pilot was unilaterally deciding what he was supposed to do was unimportant in light of unknown consequences.
That's the way the military works. The only real exception is for illegal orders.
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