The Fonda Fallacies: why Jane Fonda was wrong, and why it matters today

Vietnam Veterans Legacy Foundation ^ | August 23, 2005 | Prof. Robert Turner

[Alberta's Child]

The author misses a very important point about the whole Jane Fonda affair in Vietnam, and this truly goes to the heart of the immorality of that war from our nation's perspective.

A government that does not have the legal means and/or the political will to prosecute someone like Jane Fonda for open acts of treason had no business engaging in that military campaign in the first place.

[Stashiu]

That's not counting the thousands of us who came back to a very hostile 'welcome'. Even the VA clinicians will admit that the high percentage of chronic PTSD among us Nam Vets is due to how we were treated on coming back to the world. In fact, some will go so far as to say that the trauma of returning was worse than the war trauma itself.

Nothing quite like coming close to death, and seeing others die, only to find yourself an outcast on coming home.

The Fonda/Kerry crowd won't even get near that. That is the more disturbing part of their legacy. They have a lot to answer for.

[Smartass]

 

[troop_defender]

John Kerry in his 1971 senate testimony depicted Vietnam Veterans as monsters created by the U.S. government. Just the fact Fonda is still alive is proof that John Kerry's allegations were a fabricated pack of lies.

TD

[Interesting Times]

A government that does not have the legal means and/or the political will to prosecute someone like Jane Fonda for open acts of treason had no business engaging in that military campaign in the first place.

There's little question that the U.S. could legally have prosecuted Jane Fonda for treason -- see Dr. Hank Holzer's "Aid and Comfort" for a detailed layout of that legal case.

And America had the political will to engage in the military campaign when it began, and also for years thereafter, until it was eventually eroded by leftist opposition and the lack of tangible success.

If you're going to argue that the U.S. shouldn't engage in any military action that the people might later disapprove, that pretty well eliminates everything...

[Alberta's Child]

If you're going to argue that the U.S. shouldn't engage in any military action that the people might later disapprove, that pretty well eliminates everything.

If I am a U.S. soldier doing a combat tour in Vietnam and I come home to find that some dip-sh!t who "gave aid and comfort to the enemy" was not prosecuted by the government that sent me over there in the first place, you can be sure that I'd be extremely p!ssed off -- more so at the f#ckers in my government than at the traitor herself.

At least in the American Revolution the colonials who waged the war had no illusions about their fellow country men. Tories who supported the British during the war were routinely burned out of their homes and chased to Canada or back to Britain.

[Interesting Times]

If I am a U.S. soldier doing a combat tour in Vietnam and I come home to find that some dip-sh!t who "gave aid and comfort to the enemy" was not prosecuted by the government that sent me over there in the first place, you can be sure that I'd be extremely p!ssed off -- more so at the f#ckers in my government than at the traitor herself.

No argument there.

I suspect the reluctance of the Nixon Administration to prosecute Fonda, Hayden, et al had something to do with the ability of the Left to put 500,000 people on the streets in Washington.

[Alberta's Child]

I suspect the Nixon administration was reluctant to prosecute these people because they knew they couldn't possibly keep a straight face in court when a defense attorney asked them to explain what meaning the word "enemy" has in Federal treason statutes in the context of a military campaign that was undertaken without meeting even the most basic formal requirements of the U.S. Constitution.

[Interesting Times]

I doubt that had anything to do with it.

You'll recall that U.S. spies were convicted of treason during the Cold War, despite the absence of a formal declaration of war against the Soviets...

[zot]

Deconstructing Hanoi Jane Fonda is a fine enterprise and long overdue.

[Alberta's Child]

You'll recall that U.S. spies were convicted of treason during the Cold War, despite the absence of a formal declaration of war against the Soviets.

I may be wrong about this, but I believe these spies are generally not formally charged with treason (probably for the reason I stated). Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, for example, were convicted of espionage and conspiracy to commit espionage, not treason. And Jonathan Pollard is rotting away in a Federal prison right now following his convictions on espionage charges, not treason.

[Alberta's Child]

Ping.

[Interesting Times]

I may be wrong about this, but I believe these spies are generally not formally charged with treason (probably for the reason I stated). Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, for example, were convicted of espionage and conspiracy to commit espionage, not treason. And Jonathan Pollard is rotting away in a Federal prison right now following his convictions on espionage charges, not treason.

Good point. Of course, leftist groups such as the VVAW openly publicized classified U.S. ship and aircraft movements during the Vietnam War without being charged with espionage.

[Victoria Delsoul]

In fairness to the “insanity” defense, Fonda appears to have learned little at Vassar about critical scientific inquiry. When strangers told her that America supported the French colonial cause in 1946 and that American pilots were intentionally targeting “hospitals” and “schools” and using “invisible” bombs to target the dikes of North Vietnam, she carefully recorded these new “truths” so they could be regurgitated to eager college audiences and legislators back in America without the slightest apparent skepticism.

Yeah, poor Jane, she always did what she was told. I'm wonder if she would change her mind yet again after what she's saying now. One never knows.

[hershey]

If Fonda had simply said years ago that she'd been a damn fool and that she was sorry to her soul for what she'd done, if she'd spent time, a very long time...without publicity, visiting V.A. hospitals, if she'd put her money where her mouth is...ah, but she's not smart enough, nor does she love this country enough. She's a traitor, end of story.

[JulieRNR21]

Good article......did you hear what the American Legion said today?


"For many of us, the visions of Jane Fonda glibly spouting anti-American messages with the North Vietnamese and protestors denouncing our own forces four decades ago is forever etched in our memories," he stated. "We must never let that happen again."

[JLO]

"Good article......did you hear what the American Legion said today?"

***

Here's a news article about it.

American Legion Declares War on Protestors -- Media Next?
By E&P Staff
Published: August 24, 2005 4:20 PM ET

NEW YORK The American Legion, which has 2.7 million members, has declared war on antiwar protestors, and the media could be next. Speaking at its national convention in Honolulu, the group's national commander called for an end to all “public protests” and “media events” against the war, constitutional protections be damned.

"The American Legion will stand against anyone and any group that would demoralize our troops, or worse, endanger their lives by encouraging terrorists to continue their cowardly attacks against freedom-loving peoples," Thomas Cadmus, national commander, told delegates at the group's national convention in Honolulu.

The delegates voted to use whatever means necessary to "ensure the united backing of the American people to support our troops and the global war on terrorism."

Cadmus added: "It would be tragic if the freedoms our veterans fought so valiantly to protect would be used against their successors today as they battle terrorists bent on our destruction.”

Without mentioning any current protestor, such as Cindy Sheehan, by name, Cadmus recalled: "For many of us, the visions of Jane Fonda glibly spouting anti-American messages with the North Vietnamese and protestors denouncing our own forces four decades ago is forever etched in our memories. We must never let that happen again….

"We had hoped that the lessons learned from the Vietnam War would be clear to our fellow citizens. Public protests against the war here at home while our young men and women are in harm's way on the other side of the globe only provide aid and comfort to our enemies. "

Resolution 3, which was passed unanimously by 4,000 delegates to the annual event, states: "The American Legion fully supports the president of the United States, the United States Congress and the men, women and leadership of our armed forces as they are engaged in the global war on terrorism and the troops who are engaged in protecting our values and way of life."

Cadmus explained, "No one respects the right to protest more than one who has fought for it, but we hope that Americans will present their views in correspondence to their elected officials rather than by public media events guaranteed to be picked up and used as tools of encouragement by our enemies." This might suggest to some, however, that American freedoms are worth dying for, but not exercising.

"Let's not repeat the mistakes of our past," Cadmus advised. "I urge all Americans to rally around our armed forces and remember our fellow Americans who were viciously murdered on Sept. 11, 2001."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001020671

[RaceBannon]

I still swear that on the video series VIETNAM:A TELEVISION HISTORY, they have Hanoi Jane posing aiming, ot just sitting at the cannon, but aiming the cannon with her smile

I have to find all my old video tapes, I scanned what I had, couldn't find it.

[Coop]

Good stuff. Thanks.

[Interesting Times]

I still swear that on the video series VIETNAM:A TELEVISION HISTORY, they have Hanoi Jane posing aiming, ot just sitting at the cannon, but aiming the cannon with her smile.

I haven't seen that. Most people don't realize that in the "classic" shots of Jane on the anti-aircraft gun, she's right in the middle of singing an antiwar song, which is why her mouth looks strange...