But Is It Science?

NRODT via John Derbyshire's official website ^ | February 14 2005 | John Derbyshire

[IonImplantGuru]

"Can anybody point to Hindu, Buddist, or Atheist scientists who support ID?"

No, but it's hot stuff with the Muslims:

That figures!
ID? Islam? "Why, let's just step back to the Middle Ages, shall we?"

Gag me with a spoon.

[IonImplantGuru]

Do you have any information about his opinions concerning the gulags? Either way?

Einstein died in, what, 1955? I don't think details of the Soviet gulag system were generally recognized (in the West) at that time. Solzhenitsyn, for example was not published until the 60's (except for samizdat versions of his early work). He was in a gulag himself until 1953.

I suspect Albert was unaware of the gulag system.

[IonImplantGuru]

I am so much out of here, I'm not even going to bother with your ad hominem.

Make up your mind, RWP! From your FR homepage we have: "The Right Wing Professor is currently suffering from acute stupidity poisoning as a result of exposure to the ever increasing levels of religious fundamentalism on this site. He will be off this site from 8/19/05, through 9/4/05, and maybe longer, while he repents of ever having served the GOP in an official capacity."

C'mon, big guy: you're either on the bus or you're off the bus! Can't have it both ways, unless you're currently occupying Schrodinger's box.

Heh heh!

[grey_whiskers]

Point taken; but to quote Einstein on war, when his views were NOT founded on his physical insights and logical skills, but merely a reaction to experience in WW I, is to make a double error:

1. Appeal to authority -- apparently a big NO-NO, unless you're quoting a scientist :-)

2. Appealing to an authority on something that isn't even his specialty.

Full Disclosure: Yes, Einstein's IQ was supposedly 220+ . As such, yes, even without a degree in a field, he could happen to know more than many active practitioners, or even (like Feynman) undercut the whole area of study. BUT without advance knowledge of how informed Einstein was on an area, just blindly quoting him is not a good idea.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

" 1. Appeal to authority -- apparently a big NO-NO, unless you're quoting a scientist :-)"

Tell that to the Creationist who brought Einstein into the discussion. The Evolutionists on this thread were merely trying to correct the falsehood that Einstein was a believer in a theistic God.

"BUT without advance knowledge of how informed Einstein was on an area, just blindly quoting him is not a good idea."

A very good reason that Creationists should do their homework before quote-mining Einstein.

[jwalsh07]

Einstein's words were written in 1931, following on his experiences with the First World War, where his countrymen were conscripted to fight for the German and Austro-Hungarian monarchies for...what? More power for a hereditary elite?

Einstein's words were never, and I mean never, directed at one military entity, but the soldier in general. For you to claim differently is reading thoughts not put on paper into his words. His miserable pacifist stance never wavered. He never left Germany until after the WW1. He never retracted his opinion of soldiers, nationalism and his wish to die before bearing arms himself however he did say that the worst mistake he ever made was advising Rossevelt to pursue nuclear weapons. Of course he barely did anything to advance that particular project but what the hell.

There are many folks like him right here in todays USA. Those who despise war and the military, vow to never take up arms and living their deluded lives thinking they are the principled heroes who defend freedom.

Oddly enough, in the same war, a certain Alvin York also declined (at first) to fight; even though in his case he was actually fighting for a democracy. I guess he wasn't a great man either. The First World War was the most pointless waste of human life in the entire misbegotten history of this planet. It produced a lot of pacifists.

Your losing contact with reality. Alvin York declined to fight "at first". Albert Einstein said he would rather die than pick up arms in service of his country. You understand the difference Professor? One served, one would rather die than serve.

Whenever you wander outside your chosen field you make very little sense because you are caught in a box of your own making, you defend the indefensible based on the chosen field of the person in question and very little else. Sad Professor.

Still, I can't believe I'm reading a born American criticizing a man for objecting to fight for the Kaiser.

You heard no such thing, you made it up. Or as you and your friends like to say, you're a damnable liar. Did I get that tone about right?

[jwalsh07]

Einstein was philosophically a pacifist, true, but when faced with real evil, he chose to fight it using the most powerful weapons available.

The statement is garbage.

[claptrap]

There is no evidence for evolution a process which has either stopped or never happened for instance why dont fishermen develop webbed feet and gills to enhance their survival, why are apes still apes why havent penguins developed a defense from those nasty seals the whole premise of evolution is laughable the laws of nature like gravity are observable, but where is evolution where is any link between serpent and lizard between man and monkey
and if there is a missing link why would it dissappear but the monkey and man live on?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"His miserable pacifist stance never wavered."

Except when he warned "Rossevelt" (sic) that the Allies should pursue Nuclear weapons.

"Those who despise war and the military,"

Would Jesus approve of war? Does that make Einstein a Christian?

"Of course he barely did anything to advance that particular project but what the hell."

E=mc^2

I guess that was nothing.

"Or as you and your friends like to say, you're a damnable liar. Did I get that tone about right?"

Well, if you really want to get it right, just call him a Marxist Homo Troll and tell him to suck on a shotgun. Then you would get the right anti-evolution tone we are accustomed to here.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1466845/posts?page=410#410

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"The statement is garbage."

Einstein didn't encourage the Allies to build an atomic weapon? Please elaborate.

[DaveTesla]

Re: The Heisenberg uncertainty principle.

It stems from the first law of measurement.
Measurement cannot be made without changing the object
being measured (OUM). Even if it a is infinitesimally small
amount. Consider connecting a volt meter to a circuit.
Even at pico ohm input impedances it loads the
circuit. Changes in vector (phase)and amplitude Therefore
changing the circuit or object under test.
At some level position and speed cannot be measured because
it would interfere with the particle.
We can't measure the particle unless we stop time.
However if we can accelerate our measuring equipment to
a fast enough velocity the particle would slow down enough
to make the measurement.


From the Mandelbrot set:

z1= z02 + z0
z2 = z12 + z0
z3 = z22 + z0

What was thought to be chaos is actually order.
Therefore intelligent.

Where we went wrong was the element of time.
That's why we peer out into the Universe maybe, just maybe
what wee see is the history of time.
God is back in the picture.

[jwalsh07]

You should look before you leap, it tends to keep your foot out of your mouth.

He warned Roosevelt and then recanted. Understand? He stated "it was the worst mistake I ever made".

Einstein was born a Jew, lived as an atheist and probably died as an atheist. The fact is, by Alberts own words, he would rather die than throw the money changers out of the Temple. See the difference here. St Thomas Aquinas, a bit more of an authority on Christianity and the Bible than you, states that while the intentional taking of invent human life is a grave sin, not defending ones own life or that of other innocents is just as grave a sin. Albert was just another guy who despised the men in uniform who provided for his freedom and liberty. Defend that if you must.

Einstein did not work on the project in any significant way. That is the fact of the matter. If you have proof to the contrary supply it, E=mc^2 not withstanding.

And as for calling RWP those names, that would make me a liar, which I'm not. His statement about me and the Kaiser was a lie, a false assertion, bearing false witness. You get the drift here Carolina?

[jwalsh07]

Einstein didn't encourage the Allies to build an atomic weapon? Please elaborate.

I did in the post preceding this one. He recanted his advice. He fought nothing. He did not contribute his considerable and unique talents to the project. Those are facts.

Do you always defend military hating pacifists?

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"You should look before you leap, it tends to keep your foot out of your mouth."

Heed your own warning. It was a Creationist who brought up Einstein in this thread. It was a creationist's desperate attempt to use the authority of Einstein to show how he allegedly supported ID. This is nonsense. Einstein was at best a Deist.

"Einstein did not work on the project in any significant way. That is the fact of the matter. If you have proof to the contrary supply it, E=mc^2 not withstanding."

His theories were crucial to the Bomb's creation, and he was the one who notified the Allies to pursue it. No Einstein, no bomb.

"The fact is, by Alberts own words, he would rather die than throw the money changers out of the Temple."

Give that exact quote please.

"St Thomas Aquinas, a bit more of an authority on Christianity and the Bible than you, states that while the intentional taking of invent human life is a grave sin, not defending ones own life or that of other innocents is just as grave a sin."

And how does that agree with *Turn the other Cheek*? Christ would have been more of a pacifist than Einstein.


"And as for calling RWP those names, that would make me a liar, which I'm not. His statement about me and the Kaiser was a lie, a false assertion, bearing false witness. You get the drift here Carolina?"

What the hell are you talking about? Calling RWP what names? Stop smoking the crack.

[jwalsh07]

What the hell are you talking about? Calling RWP what names? Stop smoking the crack.

These names numbnuts:

"Well, if you really want to get it right, just call him a Marxist Homo Troll and tell him to suck on a shotgun."

I know, I know, you're evil twin wrote that suggestion.

You know very little about Albert Einstein and seemingly nothing about the Manhattan Project and Einsteins non participation in same.

Such is life.

[Torie]

Savant-like geniuses are rarely the lodestar to wise public policy. It is just the way it is. We must look elsewhere for the silver bullets, which is in itself a rather Quixotic quest. All we are left we is blood, sweat and toil. The Old Testament still has great resilience and relevancy. It cannot be escaped. No pain, no gain.

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"These names numbnuts:

"Well, if you really want to get it right, just call him a Marxist Homo Troll and tell him to suck on a shotgun."

If you had hit the link that I put you would have known that an anti-evolutionist nut said that about ME.

You said,

" And as for calling RWP those names, that would make me a liar, which I'm not."

As I never said you said those things, you are either very stupid or on crack.

"You know very little about Albert Einstein and seemingly nothing about the Manhattan Project and Einsteins non participation in same."

And you know nothing about the history of physics. Such is life :)

[grey_whiskers]

Tell that to the Creationist who brought Einstein into the discussion. The Evolutionists on this thread were merely trying to correct the falsehood that Einstein was a believer in a theistic God.

From posts 26 and 71 in this thread I got the impression people were quoting Einstein not merely to refute claims that Einstein believed in a personal God; but also to lend credence to their own assertions in that direction.

I agree (Childish paraphrase 1) "No Fair! They Started It!"--
but if any of the Evo's were quoting Einstein to bolster the luster of their own position, then they are in fact arguing from authority; and as such, acting as "scientific" hypocrites, engaging in a double standard for evidence.

Childish Paraphrase 2: "You can't argue from authority for religiion, because argument from authority is invalid.
For we, the sage seekers of empirical wisdom, have surpassed reliance on authority with the all encompassing gaze of scientism.
And by the way, poopy-heads, you are so too wrong, because look at all these famous scientists who agree with US."

If you're gonna argue for the supremacy of science, don't let your frustration with non-scientists take you down to their non-rigorous methods.

And oh, for the Creationists:

Threatening people with Hell is probably not the best way to change people's hearts and minds. Realize that science is about reproducible measurement and observations, (hopefully under controlled conditions) and the careful construction of models to explain said observations. It is not concerned primarily with morality. So please realize that just as you consider many of the evo's statements to contain major philosophical or theological blunders, they too have professional standards, and apparently many of the arguments for ID do not pass scientific muster.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled flamewars.

Cheers!

[CarolinaGuitarman]

"From posts 26 and 71 in this thread I got the impression people were quoting Einstein not merely to refute claims that Einstein believed in a personal God; but also to lend credence to their own assertions in that direction."

You got the wrong impression.

" I agree (Childish paraphrase 1) "No Fair! They Started It!"--
but if any of the Evo's were quoting Einstein to bolster the luster of their own position, then they are in fact arguing from authority; and as such, acting as "scientific" hypocrites, engaging in a double standard for evidence."

They weren't. They were showing that Einstein was no Theist.

" Childish Paraphrase 2: "You can't argue from authority for religiion, because argument from authority is invalid.
For we, the sage seekers of empirical wisdom, have surpassed reliance on authority with the all encompassing gaze of scientism.
And by the way, poopy-heads, you are so too wrong, because look at all these famous scientists who agree with US.""

You are correct. These are childish paraphrases.

[PatrickHenry]

100. Prime!