Posted on 08/17/2005 10:57:12 PM PDT by SWO
I don't use the term myself, but I understand that people are angry with the agency's long history of abuses, lack of any self-corrective mechanisms, and hostility to the Constitution they're supposed to be sworn to defend.
d.o.l.
Criminal Number 18F
Somewhere along the line, probably in the late 40's they were called the Alchohol and Tobacco Tax unit of the Bureau of Internal Revenue.These are the guys you would see chasing down good ole boys in movies like "Thunder Road. These were fine agents.
Probably because of the 1968 Gun Control act they were given firearms and explosives and became a separate agency, The Bureau of Alchohol, Tobacco and Firearms. The agency became very politicized and also the victim of affirmative action. It was now separate from the IRS although still under Treasury.
I am not sure why they added the Explosives to their name as they were responsible for their enforcement for a long time.
There were NO Davidian-owned .50 cal machine guns or ANY machine guns, PERIOD. The automatic and suppressed weapons were all brought by the BATFags, one of the most truly evil and useless (along with DEA) of ANY FedGov agency. When Koresh opened the door, getting ready to invite them in, he was shot without warning and his toddlet/infant daughter was killed in his arms. I guess, though, that drinking the FedGov Koolaid is your thing, so more power to you.
Yup, right up my alley.
In a word, unconscionable.
Propaganda.
TV news showed 3 ATF agents going through the window on the roof --- shortly after the third agent entered, the 4th agent remaining on the roof fired into that window.
Three of the four dead agents were found inside that window.
Three of the 4 agents killed had previously been on Clinton's security detail. He mentioned them in a speech afterward.
The shots through the roof from inside were obviously semi-auto fire. The agent on the roof went down the ladder, not dead on the roof.
That seems to be a common tactic used by bad law enforcement goons, doesn't it? I know that's how Ruby Ridge started too.
"batfe has no jurisdiction on records checks. that's the FBI. batfe is a TAX AGENCY. their job is to keep records and collect taxes on NFA weapons."
EXCEPT that BATFE was moved from Treasury to Department of Homeland Security after 9/11 to protect us better, for our own good, "for the children."
If Bush were the President he pretends to be, he would leave Crawford and go back to DC and fire everyone in the BATFE chain of command who had anything to do with this. I'm not holding my breath. I'm learning Spanish.
If true, what this action in Richmond shows is that there is a huge sleeping bureaucracy biding its time just under the surface until the return of an administration that would not only sanction but encourage and reward such actions. God help us if the anti-terror apparatus created by Bush falls into the hands of Hillary.
JBT Ping
If you are going to lick the jack boots, you might check your facts 4 ATF agents were killed. And no I take no joy in their deaths, all of those deaths could and should have been avoided 
I saw the three agents go through the window on national TV the day of the raid.
No agent was killed on the roof.
Where are you getting your info ?
Good info.
Knock off the personal attacks.
Let him spew his support for JBT's it keeps the place lively :)
Well, folks, I find myself needing to offer all of you my sincere apologies. You were right on the facts and I was wrong. Perhaps you can tell that I believed strongly in what I said, and got mean when I got opposition.
I APOLOGIZE TO YOU ALL.
I read some web sites with the Waco story, all report the facts as you did. (I never heard about the chapel part at all. Two agents died there.) I don't think I got wrong the part about the roof to the right of the front door. And I didn't make up the .50 cal MG part. I heard that early on, and maybe it was only speculation by LE after the initial raid.
I also learned that ATF lied to obtain the copters from the locals. You might remember that I was critical of BATF in my posts. The supervisors withholding the compromise of the raid, the copter lies.....these are not "little white lies"; they are life-risking lies. No responsible federal law enforcement agency operates in that deceptive, life-risking fashion.
I'm just plain honest, 100%. Now and then, when things go wrong like this, apologizing isn't really difficult, because I know it has to be done. Inside, it's not that easy. It's time for me to chill and reflect some.
Sorry, guys.
Randi
They had a couple of Barret .50 BMG rifles, but those are semi-auto or single shot bolt action only. Not what one would consider a "machine gun" by any stretch of the imagination. If the Davidians had had a real .50 BMG machine gun, those silly APC's the Feebies had would have never gotten that close to the building.
Thank You! No apology needed.
Thanks.
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