VA-ALERT: BATFE sinks to a new low in Richmond

Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc. ^ | Thu 8/18/2005 12:21 AM | Philip Van Cleave,VCDL President

[fire_eye]

You may be a little young and immature, IMO, to make intelligent posts on FR. Do you know that you are the ONLY poster who calls the BATFE agents "BATFAGS"?

I agree. The correct appelation is "BATFEC" - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Cults.

The correct pronunciation is "BAT-FEC" - as in, "America has been BAT-FEC'd".

[fire_eye]

Oh, my goodness. I left out the "Explosives". How thoughtless of me. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

[fire_eye]

There are no Republicans or Demonrats any more.

There are only statist oligarchs, and peasants.

[William Tell]

Randi Papadoo said: "The dogs were undoubtedly considered in the raid plan, and they would have been shot in the case that they posed a threat to the raiders. "

You think they considered the dogs but not the machine guns and .50 BMG rifles which thay claimed justified their raid?

[headsonpikes]

You can always trust the BATF-ers of this world to be BATF-ers.

[R. Scott]

One of the missions of the BATF is to control gun crimes. If they can discourage people from legally purchasing firearms …
Right. These buyers aren’t the criminal types …
Well, it is safer to knock on doors and fill out a questionnaire than to go after criminals.

[headsonpikes]

I take note that the proper term is BATFAGs.

[woerm]

currently praying that it doesn't devolve into armed v targets.

Statists tend to enjoy exterminating peons.
(insert long dissertation on historical sources of 2nd ammendment)

wondering if BAFTE et al are stupid or actually trying to get folks to vote from the rooftops.

r

[fire_eye]

Both.

The BATFEC'ers are just a government goon squad of dumb thugs, and as such, they are just as you suggest: (a) stupid, and (b) spoiling for a fight.

I submit as independent evidence, the FBI's comment when the suggestion was made, during the Reagan administration, of removing BATFEC from Treasury and merging it with the FBI. The FBI was dead set against it. Their comment (as reported on Neal Knox's mailing list): "When you mix dirty water with clean water, you get dirty water."

[Leatherneck_MT]

There are the words to describe the proper response to this bullshit.

Lock And Load

[publiusF27]

That seems to be a prevalent response, at least in the free states, but in another thread about this, uh, operation in Virginia, I learned that in New Jersey, they contact everyone around you if you want to buy a gun, and if you want to buy a gun and you're a minority, forget it. You can read about it here:

The High Road thread

[supercat]

I'm just plain honest, 100%. Now and then, when things go wrong like this, apologizing isn't really difficult, because I know it has to be done. Inside, it's not that easy. It's time for me to chill and reflect some.

We all say really stupid things sometimes.

One thing I wish some pro-government guy would explain to me, though, is where the flaw is in my thinking that the BATF agents on the initial raid should all be charged with seven counts of Murder in the First Degree (yeah, I know that's not going to happen with the corrupt government in this country, but there's no statute of limitations so one can always hope...)

1. The warrant the BATF had was a knock-and-announce warrant.
2. Legitimate execution of such a warrant requires that at the time of the search a bona fide effort be made to present it to an occupant of the property in question.
3. If there were bona fide plans to present the warrant to David Koresh or any of the Davidians, everyone on the raid should have known about them.
4. None of the people on the raid who have been questioned about the warrant knew of any plan to serve it.
5. Evidence thus suggests that there was no legitimate plan to serve the warrant.
6. Since there was no legitimate plan to serve the warrant, there was no legal basis for a forced entry into the Davidians' home.
7. Armed forcible entry into an occupied dwelling without legal justification is a felony (home invasion robbery).
8. Home invasion robbery is a crime which may quite foreseeably result in death of robbers and/or victims.
9. Eleven deaths actually occurred as a result of the BATF's home invasion robbery.
10. Under the felony murder rule, deaths which occur as the foreseeable result of a felony are prosecutable as Murder in the First Degree.

Aside from the problem that nobody in government wants to expose the corruption there, are there any flaws in the case above?