CA: Red-light cameras paying off for Gardena

The Daily Breeze ^ | 8/1/05 | Eddie North-Hager

[BurbankKarl]

call 9/11, tell them the lights are inop, and that you are treating it as a four way stop.

[BurbankKarl]

call 9/11, tell them the lights are inop, and that you are treating it as a four way stop.

[commonerX]

""call 9/11, tell them the lights are inop, and that you are treating it as a four way stop.""

1. You are assuming I have a cell phone. (I'm not getting out of my car on the blvd and wonder around for a pay phone and that is if it even works.)


2. That will not stop the camera from taking a picture of my license plate and issuing a ticket.

[BurbankKarl]

yes, but you could subpoena your call if you were issued a ticket.

[Politicalities]

Sometimes the lights get stuck on red or green. If you go through it you get a ticket. The camera doesn't know the light isn't working right.

Zuh? Every single red light camera I've ever seen is placed so as to include the signal in the frame. Otherwise, it's just a picture of a guy in a car and there's no proof of the violation. If you want to claim that this ever, ever happens, submit a picture of a cited traffic violator with a visible green light, or with no signal visible at all.

[Surtur]

quote And a camera is a heck of a lot cheaper than a motorcycle cop, and a lot less likely to let family, friends, and cute women off with a warning. /quote

No, that happens when the police reviewer gets the images and can then use them to blackmail people to get what he wants rather than have their driving record get a black mark.

[commonerX]

""yes, but you could subpoena your call if you were issued a ticket.""

I think you missing my point.

So in other wards to avoid having to deal with it in court I would have to sit and wait for a police officer to show up.

Lets see if no Camera light and same situation and cop pulls me over,
"Officer the light is broken and would not change from red to green. I waited for a long time and proceeded only when it was safe."

Officer: "Oh, Yes I see now that it isn't working properly. I will call this in to get fixed as some as possible. Just be careful and be on your way."

How much nicer, with no hassle this would be to let the officer make a judgment based on the situation.

[nightdriver]

"Over the next year, the tally should hit $800,000, according to the city's budget."

Money is what it's all about.

They really don't give a rip about safety.

[getsoutalive]

How does this law get enforced if the picture is only of the car and the driver cannot be seen.

IIRC, in this case the owner of the vehicle is ticketed, but no points can be assigned. If you loaned the car out, then go after the person you loaned it to I guess.

[Cyber Ninja]

You can only call this spot a trap.

Rosecrans is a main thoroughfare, four lanes in
each direction with a concrete island separating
east bound from west bound 45 MPH limit.

Budlong Avenue is a tiny side street, barely two
lanes wide, 25 MPH limit.

This is a very high traffic intersection. The north
side of Budlong is the back parking entrance to The
Normandie Casino, a 24/7 hour polker parlor joint.
The south side of Budlong is the back entrance of a
strip mall with 3 or 4 24 hour fact food places.

I am sure this spot will make Gardena a lot of money.

[sheltonmac]

I support this. It's a cheap way to enforce the law, and it's devoid of human frailties such as prejudice or nepotism. If the citizens don't like this method of enforcing the law, they can change either the method or the law.

You seem to think this is the way to go. If the use of cameras proves to be effective at traffic lights, where would you not put a camera? Could cameras placed in private homes be justified on the basis of stopping domestic assault or child abuse?

[Politicalities]

Could cameras placed in private homes be justified on the basis of stopping domestic assault or child abuse?

No, because there's a distinction between public places and private property. There is no expectation of privacy in public, and a reasonable person is aware that anything he does in public may be witnessed. This is not true of private homes; there is a reasonable expectation of privacy in your home and people in their own homes can expect to be secure against unreasonable search.

[Politicalities]

No, that happens when the police reviewer gets the images and can then use them to blackmail people to get what he wants rather than have their driving record get a black mark.

Yeah, this isn't the first time this particular fallacy has reared its ugly head in this thread. You are arguing, in essence, that because one type of corruption is possible, we shouldn't fight corruption.

[longtermmemmory]

The way to legally get around that legal issue is to issue the citation as you would a parking ticket. The infraction follows the car not the driver.

Thus no insurance consequences and no need to really fight it in court. Since there is no long term record, it does not pay to hire a lawyer and those "caught" just pay.

IN essence if you have the money, you have the ability to buy your way out of obeying red lights. (Mr. Physics is another matter.)

[One Proud Dad]

"Thus no insurance consequences..." I have long thought that insuring a vehicle is crap. Insurance should be carried by an individual like a license. If you don't drive you don't need it. By law if you borrow a vehicle and it does not have insurance you are at risk of a fine.

The wreck or tickets you get goes on your record not the cars so why put insurance on the car?

[sheik yerbouty]

It's a big racket.."Observe and Protect" has become "Observe and Collect".

[ApplegateRanch]

Keep in mind that the cost of a cop is not just salary, but also benefits, insurance, equipment, and so forth.

Also keep in mind that while the cop is chasing down one driver, writing the ticket, and getting back 'on station' six more have blown by Scott free. The camera would have nailed all seven.

It isn't 'cost per year' that matters, but 'cost per conviction'.

[Black Tooth]

the city banked about $450,000 in the first four months of operation

At one intersection!

Does this mean the city govt will grow, and just hire more employees, or does this mean future tax breaks for the citizens?

[ApplegateRanch]

Keep in mind that the cost of a cop is not just salary, but also benefits, insurance, equipment, and so forth.>

I should have added a down side to the "savings" of not hiring the cop over the cost of cameras: When a cop stops the vehicle, he can often write or arrest for other things; a camera can't.

The cameras don't differentiate between a simple lack of attention, and a drunk; both are equally mailed a simple red light ticket.

The camera won't see the drugs or other contraband on the seat or floorboards.

The camera will ID the driver, but not the wanted perp in the back seat. For that matter, the citation may be mailed, but the driver with warrents out on him won't be hauled in by the camera.

[38special]

Coming to a municipality and a stoplight near you...