Posted on 07/28/2005 7:50:13 PM PDT by Pharmboy
CRATER LAKE, Ore. (AP) - A camper brandished a club and threatened to kill two park rangers, then was shot dead by one of them, a park spokesman said Thursday. The man encountered the rangers as they answered a call about a domestic disturbance at a campground at Crater Lake National Park after dark Wednesday, said park spokesman Mac Brock.
When the rangers tried to talk to the man, he became increasingly hostile and wandered around the campsite despite orders to stay still, Brock said.
"Still brandishing the club, still ignoring warnings to stop, he directly approached the rangers and threatened to kill them," Brock said.
When the man came within 10 feet of one of the rangers, the ranger used pepper spray, but the man didn't stop, and the second ranger shot him twice, Brock said.
The man, whose name was withheld pending notification of next of kin, was pronounced dead at the scene.
Tim Hughes and his family from San Demas, Calif., were camping nearby.
"This guy was way out of control," said Hughes, whose wife and children were inside their trailer at the time. "They did all they could to try to get the guy to cooperate, but he was just gone. I think he must have been on narcotics, because he didn't exhibit rational behavior."
The rangers remained on duty, but were not in the field. Their names were not released.
Brock said the shooting was the first he had heard of in 12 years at the park. Shootings in national parks are rare, occurring about every 10 years, said David Barna, the National Park Service's chief of public affairs in Washington, D.C.
He doesn't have to move 10 feet - more like 4 feet. A 3' club and an extended arm ought to eat up about 6 of the 10 feet. Two steps and the officer's head is within range. Less if you lean into the swing.
If the subject is high a "shot in the leg" probably would not deter him.
THE DEAD WALK!
As far as training goes, you have a point. Park Rangers probably aren't trained well in domestic matters. But this wasn't a running fight between two people for forgeting to bring charcoal for the BBQ. It was one irrationally behaving individual with a deadly weapon.
I'm not generally a 'shoot to kill' person. In fact, I've been called some things for not supporting a cop shooting a suspect. But this time I can see it clear that they were correct.
The standard for a threat from a knife is 21 feet. Meaning that if a suspect has a blade, and is 21 feet away making any move to get closer, you can shoot. It can take less that 1.5 seconds for a man with a blade to cut your throat from that distance.
I can't see much difference in a club. A whack upside the head can be just as deadly, and can happen as fast as a knife to the neck.
hey , remember that band?? Gun Club
My rule doesn't cover LEO's at all either. But it's what I was taught. And it really doesn't cover home defense either, but you know what I mean.
"You omitted a small fact."
You did not read what I wrote.
What say we let it go? It's late. If we're gonna get into it, let's save it for a pit bull or circumcision thread.
Laughing.
G'night.
Okay.
And I really like your tagline.
See, after many years, that vegan diet deletes several essential chemicals from the body and that, coupled by constant use of illegal chemicals, causes even the most devoted environmentalist to act, well, crazy. You know him and his partner were up there smoking some good stuff. I believe if the tox screens come back positive that Smokey is authorized to put crossed MJ leaves on the side of his ATV. Five, of course, makes him an Ace.
Actually, Park Rangers are well trained in handling domestic disputes. Think about it, a campgound is a small city. A small city where a lot of the inhabitants have been drinking and partying.
The dead idiot was disturbing strangers.
Figure heartbeat acceleration up by 6.7 per cent at four feet. Sweat glands open at, say, five. Posit dry mouth at six. Recalled memories ("It crawled into my hand, HONEST, MOM!") at seven.
Eight Central, Nine Eastern: Cops.
Hell, the article says the guy got within 10 feet; at that range, an upper-body shot aimed at the shoulder wouldn't be all that hard - and if he died from that, too bad. But stopping a guy with a club isn't the same as stopping a guy with a knife.
We weren't there, and if the guy was crazed on PCP or something I'd probably just want to take him down, too - 'cause I dislike scumballs. But on the face of it from this article, seems like he didn't have to die.
I carry most every day, so I think about this stuff.
Never EVER fire a warning shot! Always shoot to STOP an attack, which means center mass and in the event of a failure to stop go to the head shot (thru an eye).
IOW: When you're up the creek, use Mozambique!
Here's what happens when you do as you have suggested: First you have to know that even the very act of displaying a firearm is use of "Deadly Force." You have the right to use deadly force when you think that YOUR life or the life of another in the same proximity of an attack is in immediate danger of suffering death or great bodily harm. IF you shoot the leg or other extremity that has little chance of being life threatening the State Attorney in an antigun jurisdiction will address the jury thusly: Mr FREEPER, you used a firearm and thus used deadly force. But you aimed for the leg....so you must NOT have really believed in your heart and soul that deadly force was justified or necessary. Therefore your actions represent extreme negligence and a reckless disregard for the laws of this state which govern such actions.....
See?
I vote for Hank Rearden 'cause he dislikes scumballs!
Sorry, this may have been the case twenty five years ago, but not anymore. Being a park ranger has taken on the same dimensions as a big city cop and they're trained in exactly the same way and armed to meet the threat. They regularly shoot it out with large scale dope growers, and illegal aliens or the coyote smugglers who pack full auto firepower to keep the cops off their payloads. Do a search for the number of felony crimes in the national park system and get a rude wakeup call. Everything from dope smuggling, to domestic violence to rape and murder.
A warning shot might have done the trick...or a shot in the leg
Awright! When do I get to start issuing orders?
Thanks.
LOL!
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