Posted on 07/28/2005 2:12:17 PM PDT by Jean S
Immediately change title to, "Then don't nuke US!"
The Americans love Pepsi-Cola, we love death.
A nuke would allow these camel humpers to have a lve fest. Nukestock.
Haven't I read this in the bible somewhere???
Have you? Chapter?
This guy obviously has NO clue what he's writing about.
The purpose of nuking Mecca isn't to kill gobs of people, though of course it would accomplish that.
The purpose of nuking Mecca is this:
Islam is built upon "5 Pillars" which are REALLY the way you get into paradise. There's the praying to Mecca 5 times a day. Contributing to charity. The Haj to Mecca at least once in their lives. Don't remember the last two.
Nuking Mecca would remove at least 2 of the 5 pillars that will get your average muslim into paradise.
It's hard to make a pilgrimage to a smoking crater of fused glass.
And praying 5 times a day to said crater is sorta an exercise in futility.
Therefore, no muslim would be able to get into paradise thereafter.
THAT'S the deal with nuking mecca, not "western values" for or against it. Not MAD.
Kicking the spokes out of their wagon wheel for all eternity is the deal :)
Godspeed
The USSR was only formed in 1919, Isslam was formed int he 7th century. The Communist threat was a pinprick compared to the slammie one.
Yup, and if you use a column of three 10 megaton airbursts at say 25,000 foot intervals, with the lowest just high enough not to kick up much fallout, you make a dandy column of fire which would be visible throughout a goodly portion of the Muslim world.
Intriguing.
Yeah, but since there aren't any 1,300 year old people, it doesn't matter when it was formed. No one who believes in that religion, or any other, has believed for more than a hundred or so years. Mortality is the great leveler.
BUMP!
The writer makes some very interesting points, but misses the mark, IMO, on a few:
1. He makes the assumption that Islam is a religion rather than a system of social, economic and intellectual control every bit as pernicious and vicious as communism. Muhammed was not a prophet, he was a deranged lunatic bent on revenge against those who rejected him much like many a whacko who enters a Post Office with a loaded automatic weapon.
2. The best advertisement for Western morality is that while we have the power and ability to make the Middle East a radioactive, glass-topped, self-lighting parking lot, we do not. We retrain ourselves ans frame such actions in the light of concepts of legalities, justice and concern for our fellow man. In the Islamic world, should anyone or any nation actually acquire the ability to produce an ddeliver nuclear weapons, no such considerations would prevent their use. In the Islamic world, Might Makes Right, especially when it can be condoned or framed in the context of religious duty.
3. Islam the system has been polluted by various alien theories of politics and racial hatred from Kant to Nazi anti-Semitism, and mixed it in with pap psychology, logical deconstruction, anti-modernism, nihilism and self-imposed or created feelings of inadequacy to produce what it is today. The wounds are self-inflicted but the excuses and philosophical engine are certainly external.
4. Like communism, Islam cannot stand a sucessful, rival ideology or society. Having a means and focus of comparison compels people to act in their self-interest and choose that which best suits them and their perceived needs. Since Islam cannot compete with the West politically (in terms of personal liberty), economically and scientifically (offshoots of personal liberty), then that which cannot be assimilated or co-opted must be destroyed or, at least, dragged down to the same level as Islam. This is the fulcrum against which the Arab-Israeli conflict must be viewed -- it's not about real estate as much as it is about having a functioning, dynamic, democratic state smack-dab in the middle of the Islamic lands, serving as both lure and beacon.
5. Islamic leaders assume, wrongly, that what the West has to offer is of no importance or interest to their followers. They simultaneously fight tooth and claw to prevent the "deceptive" and "false" allure of Western civilization (and it's benefits) from interfering with their own personal control over the Islamic population. In the meantime, millions are sentenced to poverty, ignorance, disease, unemployment, and mania for the sake of keeping the ill-intentioned-but-well-informed in charge of the well-intentioned-but-ill-informed.
6. Ask any Muslim in the street if he would prefer to live in a society where he could have access to modern education, medicine, home conveniences, labor-saving devices, well-paid employment, and still have the right to think and say whatever his little mind desired, and he would jump through flaming hoops to get at it. If enough Muslims were given this choice, the Mullahs and Imams would lose authority and control. Therefore, any such Western concepts must be framed in terms of being evil and deceptive.
7. There is a critical misunderstanding of the term "the Great Satan" out there. Satan, in Islamic terms, is not the embodiment of pure evil that he is in Christian religious belief. Rather, he is the con man, the huckster, the city-slicker-who-dupes-the-country-rube figure, the one who leads you astray. When Khomeini called us the "Great Satan" he was not referring to us as evil beings with ill-intent, he was referring to us as people hypnotized by material and secular things, ripped from the path of true belief. In effect, we sold our souls for Twinkies, television and Chevrolets. No true Muslim could live this way and only be re-embracing a more virulent strain of the faith, and evangelizing by any means possible, could the world be saved. The typical Muslim adherant now sees himself not as a member of a chosen race withholding a secret from the rest of us, he now sees himself as the savior of mankind.
8. I don't know if anyone has done an in-depth analysis, but someone should examine the causes and effects of just how Islam can claim descent from the very first Jew (Abraham) and still practice the most virulent strains of anti-Semitism.
Just afew thoughts...
We need a gene-bomb that targets Arabs! Anyone with a specific genetic code dies. I'm sure we could do this by now!
Red6
ping.
"However, Muslims have weathered such shocks to their system in the past. In 1924, the secular government of Turkey abolished the caliphate; the caliph was considered the successor of the Prophet Muhammad"
Unreal. It's amazing to me that somehow Muslims have this 'victim' mentality, and at the same time feel that westerners are still obligated to 'understand' them.
It's simple; stop blowing things up and killing innocent citizens, and then we'll talk.
War is about dominating someone else, PERIOD.
You have to break his will to fight in order to make him stop. They are trying to do this with us in this war as well. Being big and strong (Which we are) is not enough. Then you’re just the big kid who’s a wimp. That’s exactly what Osama considers us anyway. He even referred to us as a “paper tiger”.
Many of these people grew up under a totalitarian regime. They understand force and intimidation. Example: Muqtar Al Sadr, Quadaffi etc. All this touchy feely stuff just makes you get laughed at in such a place.
We are to worried about what others think, to surgical, to fast, to humane. Our speed and accuracy has lead to a situation where many people don't "feel" defeated. We need to be a little more messy, at least that’s my opinion.
Japan was ruled by a god, an emperor. They were fanatical, but all the macho talk in the world doesn’t matter when your skin peels off as people try to pick you up. Kill enough and the motivation level of the NAZI’s is fairly low. They were also fanatical! The logic of his argument I have heard many times. The liberals typically use this to say that bombing does not work (They said this in Vietnam, Libya 1986, etc).
However, if we want to resort to mass destruction I really do believe that we should develop a gene-bomb. One bomb, 6 weeks later and the whole population is dead without fallout.
Red6
Just bomb the wahabbist mosques.
"They already hate us and want us dead as it is..." I'd say you hit the bullseye as to the mindset of most of our islamic brethren in the Mideast, Pal. Look at the faces of the clowns marching in anti-American marches anywhere in Mohammadstan. A spirit of pure infernal hatred animates these characters. I had the displeasure of watching a few moments of film from Teheran recently, taken during one of their innumerable "Death to the Great Satan" rallies, and the mohos looked like mad dogs wrapped up in dropcloths from the local Quickie Lube. These yowling Ibrahims and Akmeds would hate Americans(and any other Westerners) if we rolled into town with a cure for cancer, a 7-11 franchise, and a brand new Cadillac for every Tom, Dick, and Ali. They would smile to our faces and separate our heads from our infidel bodies as soon as we got the ice machine working. Honestly, I'm very happy these people have their "Religion of Peace." Think how unpleasant they would have been without it!
Consequences of Nuking Mecca
By: Vernon Richards, author of ‘Islam Undressed‘
Because a war of attrition heavily favors their ultimate goals, Islamist terrorists have so far not been deterred by large numbers of their young men being killed. Life is cheap to them, even their own, and so they remain unmoved by their losses and still lust for power through murder. Their grass-roots support base, billions of Muslims world-wide, can still be counted on to largely support their efforts, even if only passively. If sufficiently humbled, then at some point the majority of Muslims might yet choose to abandon violence and stop their sons, or at least temporarily withdraw their jihadist forces to established realms of influence (just as the Turkish hordes did after being soundly defeated by the Polish cavalry). But any decision to withdraw will not come by either negotiation or accommodation, but only through abject humiliation and defeat. What form of defeat will suffice to convince Islam to put the Jihad genie back in the bottle is a subject of widespread debate. Pacifists blithely claim more therapy, understanding, and multiculturalism is the way, and will likely continue to spout such nonsense right up until the Halal knife slices their throat. They congratulate themselves for being so open-minded, oblivious that their brains have fallen out. Happily self-blinded by excessive relativism, they can no longer distinguish right from wrong, good from evil, or dark from light.
Those more personally touched by Islamic methods, and with the ability to realize you cannot create sweets from bile, often prefer methods of ‘total war’. Our enemies remain free to plan and perpetrate never-ending acts of total war designed to destroy the very fabric of our society. Failure to respond with even greater destructiveness will only serve to prolong this struggle. In any contest, the first rule of victory is to fight on your own terms and not your opponents. In any violent struggle, victory goes to the most ferocious and skilled. As Patton said, let the other poor bastard die for his country, our objective is to fight and win. We must fight with more energy, more cunning, more intelligence, and more ferocity than the cunning animals seeking our demise. It is simply suicidal to refuse to fight a people and culture who are motivated, mobilized, and pledged to destroy you. The true terrorists, the men and nations brainwashing, supplying, and ordering terrorist attacks, would prefer they remain unmolested. They are quite happy to let us use our police, military, and intelligence to play cat and mouse with their endless supply of terrorist foot-soldiers in this contest stacked against us. In this war, victory will go to the party most effective in convincing the opposing party that surrender is preferable to a continuation of hostilities, and so victory will remain out of reach to us as long as the enablers and handlers remain safe. Muslim survivalists will only force the end to the terrorist activities springing up from amongst them when made to pay a terrible price. One ‘terrible price’ currently under debate is an nuclear attack on Mecca should any 9/11 scale attack (or larger) occur on US soil. I am in favor of such planning in the event of a catastrophic strike against America, because I believe the burden of loss needs to be shifted decidedly to fundamental Muslims themselves (and what they value most) if there is to be any hope of ending all this madness. To yield to Islamists demands and take the option off the table would be strategically stupid. Unfortunately, the only thing an insanity respects is greater insanity.
But as has been pointed out by Robert Spencer, Nuking Mecca could also be seen by Islamists as a weak action and could serve to unify Muslims and increase Jihad. But this is only true if not done properly and the city is left salvageable within a few years. Once devoted Muslims carry out their next major strike on America, the Mecca plan should be carried out without hesitation or warning. No Hiroshima class atomic wimp-weapon will do, only the 1,000 times more powerful hydrogen fusion device will work for this important job. To be done correctly, a grid of 9 of our most powerful Hydrogen bombs (3x3, every 12 miles, the black stone at the center) are set off at the surface to be as dirty as possible, rendering the entire region uninhabitable for the next few decades. The strike is then repeated every 5 years or so if any kind of clean-up is attempted. Medina needs one too, to prevent Arabs from declaring the transference of the holy site to the secondary location, but Mecca needs to be thoroughly ‘glassified’.
Muslims will thereby learn by force-feeding that their hateful God (Allah) cannot protect them and is a figment of their collective imagination, and millions will leave the failed cult. Nothing harms an Arab more than humiliation and defeat. They sincerely believe that their most-powerful Allah has promised to protect and preserve Mecca, and so their false faith in the Pagan deity will crumble with the meteorite in the intense heat and pressure of a fusion fireball. Can a billion Moslems worldwide face radioactive glass 5 times a day and still take it seriously, I don’t think so, or at least not over the long term. Cut off the head and the snake will still squirm for a while, but it will soon stop. In addition, by preventing Muslims from -ever- performing one of the pillars (requirements) of Islam, we block their way to paradise, but thereby actually save them from real hell (Islam is hell-on-earth is this life, and brings only sorrow and torment in the next). When the time comes, by all means, Nuke Mecca, …but do it right. By this act, and this act alone, many intelligent Arabs, Persians, Egyptians, and Asians will stop their foolish ideas of superiority, and so curb their sanctimonious rationales to commit hateful acts of murder, rape, slavery, and violence. Domestic Muslims will need to be controlled for a while, with heavy doses of education and trauma therapy applied. If they can commit to opposing Muhammad and his methods, then in a generation or two Islamic nonsense will not be worshiped by their children. If they can make no such binding commitment, then deportation is in order. As Hiroshima saved more lives than it took 60 years ago, so will thoroughly nuking Islamic sites save more lives than will be taken otherwise, including possibly yours, mine, and your children and my children.
While we all hope such measures are unnecessary, to fail to plan for that eventuality is to plan to fail. If we were to Nuke major cities in Iran and Syria, the root of Islam in Mecca would remain and worldwide faith in Muhammad and his vile methods would be strengthened instead of weakened. Such a weak act would embolden the movement and the gains in destroying America would be perceived as well worth the cost. In the mean time, while we all await for the rumored catastrophe, a concerted effort to supply Persians with the means and weapons to overthrow the Mullahs is urgently needed in Iran. Our Persian allies in this effort need to understand that they will likely die with the Mullahs in the inevitable nuclear storm which will follow should they fail. The Kurds of northern Syria are also salvageable, but there is hardly anything else worth preserving in Syria. As I have been informed by Jordanian and Lebanon Arabs, Syrians are not to be trusted, and for reason.
I think this guy is way off the target of Tancredo's remarks, which I support fully.
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