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To: superiorslots

Rising income charts are crap... standard of living in US has only rose moderately since 1970... and it has done so largely by the fact that most households are now 2 income not one... a complete opposite of how it was in 1970...

Our standard of living is declining in terms of real dollars when you take this into account and it directly correllates to the decline of manufacturing and rise in service industry jobs.

Sorry, but manufacturing generates about 3.5 jobs per direct job.. service 1.6... that's facts folks, and free traders can lie all day long, but its the truth.


13 posted on 07/11/2005 7:37:48 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

"Facts" are usually supportable [hint].


20 posted on 07/11/2005 7:40:34 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: HamiltonJay; 1rudeboy; Toddsterpatriot; mace; expat_panama; LowCountryJoe; Cato
Sorry, but manufacturing generates about 3.5 jobs per direct job.. service 1.6... that's facts folks, and free traders can lie all day long, but its the truth.

Correct, and it bears repeating.

Chart here from the National Association of Manufacturers.

And as reprinted below:

The Multiplier Effect

Manufacturing ripples through the economy and creates jobs and income in other industries that support it such as construction, information technology, insurance, retail, utilities, etc.

Sales Economic output OUTSIDE manufacturing
Manufacturing $1.00 $1.43
Service sector $1.00 $.71


Sales Jobs supported OUTSIDE manufacturing
Manufacturing $1.00 13.0
Service sector $1.00 3.5

National Association of Manufacturers (NAM). "The Facts About Modern Manufacturing." September 30, 2003.

33 posted on 07/11/2005 7:50:43 AM PDT by Paul Ross (George Patton: "I hate to have to fight for the same ground twice.")
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To: HamiltonJay

The thing that really gets me, is those that tell us that America will move from a manufacturing economy to a service economy. Then we allow low paid illegals to swamp the service industry. In WWII, we won because of manufacturing. Next time we lose to the country with the factories. Nearly every war is decided by who can produce the war machines most quickly. The north beat the south because of the factories, the germans beat the french and british for the same reason.


44 posted on 07/11/2005 8:06:08 AM PDT by jeremiah (Patrick Henry said it best, give me liberty or give me death.)
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To: HamiltonJay
Rising income charts are crap... standard of living in US has only rose moderately since 1970... and it has done so largely by the fact that most households are now 2 income not one... a complete opposite of how it was in 1970.

I agree with your statement about two household incomes vs. one, but the standard of living in the U.S. is exponentially higher today than it was in 1970.

57 posted on 07/11/2005 8:37:26 AM PDT by Alberta's Child (I ain't got a dime, but what I got is mine. I ain't rich, but Lord I'm free.)
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To: HamiltonJay
Rising income charts are crap... standard of living in US has only rose moderately since 1970... and it has done so largely by the fact that most households are now 2 income not one... a complete opposite of how it was in 1970...

I couldn't agree more.

225 posted on 07/11/2005 5:11:16 PM PDT by Black Tooth
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To: HamiltonJay

our standard of living has risen greatly since the 1970s becasue of technology.

and as for those manufacturing jobs, well we've been losing them since 1978, that was the peak year. And guess what the entire world is losing manufacturing jobs, not just the US but Canada, UK, Germany, France, Japan and yes even China.

Manufacturing productive growth is something like 5-7% per year, but demand for manufactured goods rise at only 3-4% per year, so naturally jobs must disappear.


Manufacturing is what farming was in the early 20th century. Farming output has risen even has employment has fallen someething like 90%. Same thing will happen in manufacturing and is happening. It cannot be reversed without a steep reduction in the worlds living standards.

There were Luddites back in the early 1900s, William Jennings Bryan was one, who insisted, much like some here, that if jobs were lost in farming, America would be lost forever.


348 posted on 07/12/2005 3:56:02 PM PDT by atlanta67
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To: HamiltonJay
but manufacturing generates about 3.5 jobs per direct job..

And each of those new jobs generate according to whether they are "service" or "manufacturing", don't they? That would be a geometric sequence, and every manufacturing job ripples through the economy.

Conversely, just look at what happens to an area when it loses manufacturing jobs...the loss is much greater than just those jobs.

I'm wondering if, in this Brave New Economy, WalMart-type jobs don't cost other jobs, as they sell merchandise from overseas, and destroy businesses that involve enterpreunership and individuality.

378 posted on 07/20/2005 11:29:34 PM PDT by grania ("Won't get fooled again")
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