Serbs, Lies, and Videotape

frontpagemag.com ^ | June 17, 2005 | Julia Gorin

[pawdoggie]

Not a very informed statement.

Really, then why did Von Bismarck says that the Balkans were "not worth the blood of a Pomeranian Grenadier"?

[ma bell]

sorry bub, can't do that. Somethings aren't just found on the internet hearsay.

[montyspython]

Dole was paid out, he did nothing of worth in terms of Balkan policy. He shilled for the Albanians.

[montyspython]

Was Truman a communist?

[montyspython]

Damn it man, where's my cut?

[montyspython]

You back up your ridiculous assertion with another one and quoting Von Bismarck makes you even appear more ridiculous.

Are you in the bigot business or what?

[inquest]

Was Truman a communist?

Well, he seemed to like "Uncle Joe":

Stalin's luncheon was a most satisfactory meeting. I invited him to come to the U.S. Told him I'd send the battleship Missouri for him if he'd come. He said he wanted to cooperate with the U.S. in peace as we had cooperated in war, but it would be harder. Said he was grossly misunderstood in the U.S. and I was misunderstood in Russia. I told him that we each could help to remedy that situation in our home countries and that I intended to do my part at home. He gave me a most cordial smile and said he would do as much in Russia. Source

"Grossly misunderstood"? He had already murdered 7,000,000 Ukrainians by starvation, was complicit in starting WWII by helping Germany invade Poland, and was showing no sign of reforming. But Truman wanted to make sure he wasn't "misunderstood". Right.

[TheCrusader]

"Was Truman a communist?"

Not to my knowledge, but he was a banker prior to being President. And you gave as evidence of Milosovic's 'corruption' that he was a banker prior to being President.

Honestly, I don't know much about Milosovic except that his country had been infested with Islamic terrorists for centuries, and that they entered those Christian lands forcefully centuries ago and began their killings and terror campaigns as a means to subjugate or drive out the original inhabitants, (Christians).

I also know that for decades many Serbian police were being shot in the back in city streets by Islamic terrorists. It's interesting to note that when Kosovo was 'liberated' by Klintoon, the Kosovars claimed the territory had always been theirs. This inspite of the fact that nearly every street, park and bridge in the city had Serbian names.

So, did Milosovic commit crimes unrelated to the endless war between the Serbs and Muslim terrorists, drug lords and illegal weapons dealers? I don't know, and I don't care. But I DO know this, there are leaders all over our planet who skim money from their country's treasuries, but who haven't been arrested by the U.N. and placed on the International Court.

Bear in mind, Milosivic was not originally hunted down and arrested for any crimes other than the alleged "war crimes" he was charged with. The International Court has no jurisdiction in the internal matters of nations, even by thier own illegal charter. In any case, as it turns out much of the evidence against Milosovic, (mass graves) was bogus, because most of the graves were filled with dead Serbians, slaughtered by Islamic vermin who never belonged in the region in the first place.

Now, if Milosovic committed crimes against his own people, then he needs to be tried by his own people, in his own country. End of story.

[montyspython]

I know more about Milosevic then a I really care to, no he should not be tried at the ITCY but rather back in Belgrade where he should be.

The Truman comment was meant as humor, Milosevic was a corrupt communist holdover. The reason for the banking reference is to establish some historical contexts, he understood how the financial institutions operated and therefore was better equipped to tap it.

[pawdoggie]

Are you in the bigot business or what?

Dear Sir/Madam:

I (choose one) a. am profoundly sorry; b. regret; c. am mildly amused that my comments may have in some way (choose one) a. insulted; b. defamed; c. spoken the truth about your (choose one) a. Serbian; b. Croatian; c. Bosnian Muslim; d. Kosovar Muslim ancestors. I should not infer from the fact that your ancestors are still refighting a battle that occurred a half a millennium ago the notion that all of the people in the Balkans are a bunch of murdering thugs (or whatever words to that effect I may have used), nor should I infer from the very Liberal-like sensitivity you displayed in your response that your (choose one) a. grandfather; b. uncle; c. father (choose one) a. Alia; b. Ratko; c. Mustafa was anything less than a saint (no matter how many Muslims, Serbs, or Croats he may have been forced to kill to avenge the Battle of Kosovo). You see, although I am mostly of French ancestry, I take no pride in that whatsoever (especially these days), and I like a good anti-French slam as much as any red-blooded American patriot. For that is what I am, an AMERICAN, not some hyphenated goof-ball. Thank you for your interest.

[montyspython]

Too funny....

Again, since you obviously know nothing about the subject, your waisted energy on the previous diatribe only solidifies the fact that you are incapable of making a coherent point. If you are ashamed of your ancestry then certainly it is your prerogative to be so ashamed, however, you simply made yourself look more foolish in the process.

If it pains you to debate in a logical and mannered fashion then perhaps the DU would be more well suited for your intellectual talents.

[pawdoggie]

Again, since you obviously know nothing about the subject, your waisted (sic) energy on the previous diatribe only solidifies the fact that you are incapable of making a coherent point. If you are ashamed of your ancestry then certainly it is your prerogative to be so ashamed, however, you simply made yourself look more foolish in the process. If it pains you to debate in a logical and mannered fashion then perhaps the DU would be more well suited for your intellectual talents.

Dear Ratko/Slobo/Alia, Whatever:

Actually, it sounds like I hit pretty close to home. I think pointing out that the Balkanites haven't been able to get along in over 500 years (and we both know it actually goes back much farther than that) is both a "coherent" point, and reveals that I have at least a rudimentary knowledge of Balkan history. Moreover, I think that 500 plus years of ethnic violence and terrorism (which occasioned the Von Bismarck quote to which you took exception) is prima facie evidence of a strain of thugishness in the Balkan character. I'm sure that if I learned Serbo-Croatian, and drank deeply of Balkan history, literature and culture (of which most of the people on this planet are blissfully ignorant) I might learn some other great truths about the tribes of former Yugoslavia, but I trust that I would learn nothing that could explain or justify the Islamic militant-style hatred that has existed for so long in that region.

I take it by your comments above that you are quite proud of your Balkan (probably Serb) heritage. There are any number of flights leaving daily for Europe: you wish to consider an extended stay in your real homeland.

Finally, and I do mean finally since I should not "waist" (as you put it) my time on this any longer: your much more recent entry into this forum, and your previously discussed Liberal sensitivity about your diverse heritage, suggest that you are far more likely than I to feel comfortable over at DU, but that's your choice.

[montyspython]

So your presumeably "final" stand still contains absolutley no intellectual content what so ever.

500 plus years of ethnic violence and terrorism

Probably never heard of the Ottoman Empire have you?

There are any number of flights leaving daily for Europe: you wish to consider an extended stay in your real homeland

Typical "duck and cover" tactic; "... if you don't like our country you can go back to where you came from...". How so rural of you, any chance of getting the money back you so poorly invested into your education?

Thank you for wasiting everybody's time Sparky.

[ma bell]

Well scripted, mate.

[joan]

My favorite is how the Serbs rained down THOUSANDS of shells on Sarajevo for YEARS on end and yet whenever a large number of people were killed they insisted that the Muslims fired the deadly round and would scream "conspiracy!" when blamed.

The Serbs were over 30% of Sarajevo and held suburbs withing the city - which were being shelled by the Muslims. Muslims which had military and paramilitary forces in the 10s of thousands in Sarajevo. The Bosniaks (Muslims) managed to become much better equipped in Sarajevo despite the "seige" which was more the Muslim-controlled part being very strict and refusing to allow people out. The Yugoslav army handed over the Sarajevo airport to the UN in June 1992 as they pulled out and left the Bosnian Serbs who had a smaller infantry than the Muslims - so shortly after the war began. The UN violated the conditions that the airport was to be used for humanitarian aid only and weapons and fighters were brought in and out.

The front lines ran near THE MIDDLE OF THE CITY and were mostly unchanged during the entire war. The UN was already arriving there in February 1992 before the war started.

What the media purposely left out was that the Serb were often responding to shelling and attacks by the Muslims. UN reports often tell of Muslims initiating and provoking attacks if you'd bother to research. UN soldiers have testified of OUTGOING mortar fire near their base which was on the Muslim side of the lines.

The Muslim population of Sarajevo is LARGER THAN EVER, and they make up 90-95% of the city when they were only around 50% before the war.

[Destro]

So the Serbs should have played smart and allowed the Muslims to carry out Izebegovic's plan for Bosnia? Alijah Izetbegovic, who was being investigated by the ICTY for war crimes (which the Court revealed only upon his death in 2003), and who was part of the Nazi SS Handzar division during WWII, which butchered Serbs and the ethnic minorities of Yugoslavia. He also authored “The Islamic Declaration”, in which he stated: “The shortest definition of the Islamic order defines it as unity of faith and law, upbringing and force, ideals and interests, spiritual community and State…a Muslim generally does not exist as an individual… […] There can be no peace or coexistence between ‘the Islamic faith’ and non-Islamic social and political institutions.”

If the leader of my nation came to power with that declaration as his goal I will try and do all I can to kill the son of a bitch and his backers.

I am sure the example of Greek Cyrpus was inspiring to the Serbs. The Serbs had no major advantage when you count the suppory the West gave the neo-nazi offspring of the Croats and Muslims.

Why yes the Serbs did shell Sarajevo - on Muslim front lines - so in order to get the press the Muslims needed (and their western backers needed) the dirty al-Qaeda allied Muslims staged a few shellings for the camera - offer some ice cream to get a line and then - action! Intervention follows.

[joan]

The first civilian killed in Sarajevo was a Serb, Nikola Gardoviæ, who was killed February 29, 1992. He was the father of the groom and carrying a Yugoslav flag, as was a custom of many, in a procession.

BOSNIA Recently released secret documents reveal that in the first days of the war, Muslim paramilitary leaders murdered scores of Bosnian Serb civilians in Sarajevo.

The Bosnian Muslims released hardened criminals - rapists, theives, murderers in the run-up and early days of the war. Later these people were liquidated after their dirty job was done to distance Izetbegovic (who praised them on TV for instance) from their deeds.

One of the most powerful paramilitary leaders at the outset of the war was JUSUF PRAZINA, a man with a long record. He ran torture/death/rape prison in Sarajevo (one of many Muslim-run prisons/camps for Serbs) which allowed Mujahadeen to torture/beat/sodomize and kill Serbs.

Izetbegovic turned against him after a few months and Prazina went to Mostar to FIGHT WITH THE CROATS against his own people and he had a notorious concentration camp with Muslim victims.

He fled Bosnia as he was being sought by Izetbegovic’s men, but they found and killed him in Belgium December 1993.

Another paramilitary leader of the beginning was Muslim Musan Topalovic, nickname Caco, and then commander of the BiH Army 10 Mountain Brigade.

This guy had been put in prison for rape when he was 17 (circa 1980). So a convicted peacetime rapist was put in command of the army brigade. Do you think people who are violent criminals during peacetime would show a shred of morality during the war? Of course not. These people would be the most violent which is why they were put in charge at the beginning when Serbs were terrorized and cleansed in most places Muslims and Croats had power.

This is from a PBS frontline documentary – never a pro-Serb nor Serb source:

NARRATOR: When Celo was 17, the tough Muslim was arrested for armed robbery and rape and sent to a maximum security prison. Inside Yugoslavia's Alcatraz, Celo made an important connection when he protected a frail political prisoner, Alia Izetbegovic, who would later become the president of Bosnia. After six years, Celo returned to the streets a hardened criminal, leading a gang that controlled much of Sarajevo's drug and protection rackets.

[A. Pole]

I can see why you and other Serb defenders (mostly the Marxist/Communist crowd incidentally) would embrace this theory: it absolves the Serbs of all responsibility for the disaster of the 1990s.

Fusion, is that you? You keep coming back.

[inquest]

You acknowledge that "the Serbs often got unfair treatment by the media," after insisting, "Want to know the truth about why the Serbs were singled out as the "bad guys" in the Balkans? There's nothing complex about it really, no grand CIA/media conspiracy."

Can't be both. If the media were biased against the Serbs, then you can't just conclude that the Serbs were the bad guys just from nothing more than your own impressions that you've accumulated over the years.