Posted on 06/15/2005 1:11:25 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
Cheney said we need these people here to do the jobs americans don't want.
I give up.
The point is LEGAL immigrants doing these jobs. Now, we have legal and illegal folks doing those jobs. For the sake of discussion, they all leave. Now what happens to the economy and those jobs?
Serious answers only, please. Flames aren't necessary when I'm merely looking for answers, I'm neither agreeing with nor disagreeing with Cheney's words. I've just seen this argument repeatedly and neither side ever answers the most basic questions.
The Constitution also says I have the right to own a gun. . . but not a stolen gun.
If I'm not mistaken, the old policy of coming here just to drop a baby out your vagina is illegal, and that baby is not neccessarily a citizen.
Am I mistaken?
First of all, I will presume that "they all leave" refers only to the illegals, and not the legal immigrants (it's unclear from your wording).
Second, what happens to the economy and the jobs done by illegals is that once the illegals are deported en masse as they should be right this moment then we can see if legal immigration levels need to be raised.
Problems solved.
Cheney is obviously refering to legal immigrants. We don't want those folks to leave, I am merely creating a scenario.
You didn't answer the question, though, so I'll try another approach.
We can safely assume that many illegals ARE working. What happens if they all leave? Do all those businesses simply collapse until we get it all worked out perfectly?
I have no idea how we would get illegals to leave short of hiking taxes, which we are all against, to have the manpower to investigate immigration violations and arrest and deport the illegals.
I don't see anyone providing valid answers on this, just slogans and easy, impossible answers.
My answer (and I suspect others') would be to tighten border security now, to try to stop the flow into the country. Then we would issue a national I.D.--something many here are against for various reasons--and attack this at the employers's level, making every employee on a payroll match with its legal ID number.
But I don't have any expertise on immigration reform, and frankly those who have easy answers on both sides don't seem to have any, either.
No one can seem to give an honest, informed, straightforward representation of what can be done to remove the illegals from this country and what this would entail in cost. We can sit here and say "Well they should just stop spending on X, Y or Z," but that's unrealistic, especially with our current congress, which is spending like drunken sailors. And as this article points out, thanks to our wonderful government of some years ago, anyone born here is a citizen and thus their parents have a toehold.
I'm sorry but your solution doesn't seem to solve anything. Simply saying "find and deport them all" is asserting what has to be done--that's not a solution, it's the end result, like saying "stop all the criminals from killing and raping". And the short-term hit to the economy would be massive in terms of the money to pay for that and the loss of workers.
Cheney wasn't talking about the ones that are legal. He was talking about legalizing the illegal ones here.
hannity asked him about using the military to patrol our border.
Cheney said that our military was not properly trained to patrol our border and that it was not part of their mission...
THE MILITARY IS NOT TRAINED TO REPEL FOREIGN INVASIONS???
What the hell IS it trained for, if not that as a bare minimum!?!
I love Dick Cheney... but our border policy is clearly wrong and it is NOT playing well with the american people.
We can have marines die to shut down the Iraq border with Syria, and Iran... but they are incapable of repelling an invasion of illegals, thousands of them, on our own borders?
Somebody's head is screwed on too crooked if they cannot see the utter stupidity in that 'not trained to patrol or secure our borders' quote, unquote, from Dick.
We are in trouble in our own hemisphere... with invading illegal criminals...
We damned well better be able to defend our borders HERE at least as well as we do over there for the muslims who to a great extent do not trust or even hate us.
Bush and Cheney have sold us out to illegal immigration.
Maybe if we passed the patriot act, it would cut down on the illegal invasion from the south...
"Cheney is obviously refering to legal immigrants."
NO, in the interview (with hannity ) today he clearly referred directly to the ILLEGALS... period end of discussion.
they want the illegals to stay and become 'legals'.
it's amnesty plain and simple by another name.
and its wrong for America.
yeah.
if you drop it here, on this soil... it IS an american.
What is so thorny about kicking their asses out and locking the door? They were the ones who put that burden on their children, not us.
What happens if they all leave? Do all those businesses simply collapse until we get it all worked out perfectly?
Nope. I doubt that any given business is so heavily reliant on illegal workers that it would 'collapse' in their absence, and if any business is so heavily reliant on illegal workers then it should be shut down as a criminal enterprise anyhow.
The very highest estimates would put illegals at 3-4% of the nationwide labor force. The economy would survive their departure..
A few businesses might have to budget some additional overtime for a while. They'll get over it.
I don't see anyone providing valid answers on this, just slogans and easy, impossible answers.
Have you actually looked? Did you look here?
Then we would issue a national I.D.
The National ID will do nothing to reduce illegal immigration when it's implemented over the next few years under the REAL ID euphemism Congress passed it with.
Otherwise, whatever short-term loss their may be is worth the long-term gains in my view.
You are mistaken. "Native born" is native born.
Ted Kennedy foisted the seventies' illegal alien reform act on the country and opened the flood gates.
What are the jobs illegals are doing that Americans do not want to do, according to the politicians? I take it they meant the menial jobs such as janitors, laborers, and such. Move them out en masse. Tell those on welfare, here are jobs. Take the jobs or else.
Now I remember- marrying an immigrant to earn their citizenship IS illegal. The birth-thing, that's different...
THE MILITARY IS NOT TRAINED TO REPEL FOREIGN INVASIONS???
Not peacfully, that's why they carry the big guns. Are we ready for firefights along the border? Gunning down mexicans, etc as they cross the border?
Now I remember- marrying an immigrant to earn their citizenship IS illegal. The birth-thing, that's different...
----
Right, but I wish your first response was correct. It's amazing how many illegals come over here and have babies. They must be having contractions crossing the border. I've even wondered if they have some special innards where they are dropping one out every 4 months or so.
Regarding the marriage...all you have to do is go on an imigration board (try ILW.com) to read about the sham marriages.
I did my OB rotation as an intern at LAC USC Medical Center in 82. We all joked that we made more citizens then a federal judge. The women would wait in the parking lot till they were "crowning" ie had the babies head appear before they would come in the doors....
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