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To: FatherofFive
***Now, does this means that "God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him might not perish but might have eternal life" only applies to the elect?***

That is an invitation, an instruction on how to be saved. The elect will hear it and understand and be saved. The unelect will see that and see it as foolishness.

Epesians 1: 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. 4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God's grace 8 that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. 9 And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure, which he purposed in Christ, 10 to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ. 11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

412 posted on 06/09/2005 12:29:36 AM PDT by Gamecock (We don't beat "nice" people to a bloody pulp, nail them onto a cross and then watch them suffocate.)
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To: Gamecock

"The unelect will see that and see it as foolishness"

I accept predestination to heaven, for some.

However, my question is about double predestination. That is, God creating people with no chance of salvation. God knows what we will do. He knows many will not hear.

But did God create people who have no chance of salvation? Create them for the purpose of sending them to hell?


417 posted on 06/09/2005 7:11:20 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Choose life!)
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To: Gamecock
That is an invitation, an instruction on how to be saved. The elect will hear it and understand and be saved. The unelect will see that and see it as foolishness.

It is not an invitation in the typical sense- the invitees are not free to turn the invitation down or accept it since, under your theology, their answer is pre-determined.

The elect are saved, period. Nothing can un-save them. The non-elect cannot be saved no matter what.

That is one of the heaviest criticisms of Calvinism- the notion of predestination throws all biblical morality and concepts of sin out the door.

423 posted on 06/09/2005 8:23:08 AM PDT by Modernman ("Laws are like sausages, it is better not to see them being made." -Bismarck)
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