Russia -- The Empire of Tyranny

frontpagemag.com ^ | May 19, 2005 | Askar Askarov

[jb6]

By the way, ever heard of the People's Republic of Bavaria: there was a nice little communist state right in the middle of all the "high" culture you so worship.

[jb6]

Very true. Central Asia and the Caucus never lived so well as they did under the empire, even the Soviets, while the Russians (under the Soviets) in the core provinces (Russians, Ukrainians, Belaruss, N. Kazakstan) suffered. That explains why 1 million Georgians moved to Russia after the SU collapsed and Georgia became independent. I guess after everything it was Moscow feeding Tbilisi not Tbilisi feeding Moscow

[lizol]

Did the Polish peasants used the word "pan" addressing to themselves before WWII?

I have no idea, but I'll ask my father, who is 75 yers old, and his father (my grandfather) was a farmer, a peasant.

[RusIvan]

Probably followers of Pilsudsky (sp?) - Polish dictator back to 192x. "pun" - maybe it's the Polish word for "Sir".==

Yes the followers of Pilsidskii who himslef was no really better then Stalin.

I saw recently film about polish campaign to get colonies just before WW2. It was looked funny.
Do you know that before WW2 polish goverment requested from League of Nations to define for Poland some african(?) countries as polsih colonies?
Poland was going to be collonial empire before WW2:).

Poland of Pilsidskii wasn't no much better then Soviet Union of Stalin.
DO you know that Winston Cherchill called Poland as "hyuena" because Poland together with Hitler's Germany partitioned Checkoslovakia in 1938.
The next year 1939 Poland was partitioned herself and poles remember it very good but conviniently forget 1938 partition.

[Long Eared Hair]

1)I saw recently film about polish campaign to get colonies just before WW2. It was looked funny. Do you know that before WW2 polish goverment requested from League of Nations to define for Poland some african(?) countries as polsih colonies? Poland was going to be collonial empire before WW2:).
No, I don't know that. Can our Polish collegues comment it?

2)DO you know that Winston Cherchill called Poland as "hyuena" because Poland together with Hitler's Germany partitioned Checkoslovakia in 1938. The next year 1939 Poland was partitioned herself and poles remember it very good but conviniently forget 1938 partition
As far as I know, Sir Winston Churchill wrote it in his memoires. I heard also that Polish government somehow prevented USSR from signing an anti-German alliance with the UK and France that lead to Soviet-German pact in 1939. But I don't know whether it's true or not.

[RussianBoor]

Let us guess what would be the chances of the guy getting his degree if his thesis were Russia --the Land of Freedom. His effort reminded me an old joke about Russia being the birthplace of elephants. The same thing basically ;)) Russia--The Empire of Tyranny. Russia--The Birthplace of Elephants. Sounds good, eh?

[MarMema]

The question least asked however is what this “Great Russia” gave to the Russians in the first place?

[lizol]

Eh, Ivan, Ivanyshka.

And you're saying something about my anti-Russian resentiments?

How goes that saying about a pot and a kettle?

[lizol]

As to Polish colonial ambitions - it may seem ridiculous, but it's true.

There was so called "Maritime and Colony League", which aimed to turn Poland into a colonial power, claimed that Poland ought to acquire part of the former German colonies. They wanted to buy part of Angola, or Madagascar.

As to Polish government "somehow preventing USSR from signing an anti-German alliance with the UK and France that lead to Soviet-German pact in 1939" you should know, that Sobviet condition was, that Poland would let their troops in, to station and go trough Polish territory."

The Soviets would be "guests" very difficult to get rid of.
The Baltics states let them in to defend them against Nazi Germany and how it finished - we all know. Today's Russian authorities maintain, that the Baltics invited Soviet troops, so it's legal, that those countries became Soviet republics.

[Long Eared Hair]

Well, that was a mirror answer, I think.
Poland and Russia have been always as friendly towards each other as a cat and a dog. With a possible exception for the Soviet era.

[Long Eared Hair]

There was so called "Maritime and Colony League", which aimed to turn Poland into a colonial power, claimed that Poland ought to acquire part of the former German colonies. They wanted to buy part of Angola, or Madagascar.
I'm amazed you have unbiased attitude to Polish history. That's great, man!

The Soviets would be "guests" very difficult to get rid of. The Baltics states let them in to defend them against Nazi Germany and how it finished - we all know. Today's Russian authorities maintain, that the Baltics invited Soviet troops, so it's legal, that those countries became Soviet republics.
Interesting, that the final result was the same. But, given that Poland would have kept its military if it had supported USSR's agenda before the British, this solution looks better.
As for the Baltics states, legally they invited Soviet troops. And at first, there were no resistance, until the Soviets began installing Soviet power.

[lizol]

As to history - there are no saint nations, everyone has its own shameful moments in the past.
The point is - to be proud of those glorious moments and to remeber and draw a conclusion from the shameful ones - not to repeat them anymore.

Interesting, that the final result was the same.

Not exactly. Poland - thanks God - did not become a Soviet republic (altough Polish "patriots" - communists - begged Stalin to do so).
People's Republic of Poland was a puppet, communist state, ruled by Soviet servants but it was surely different than status of a Soviet republic (like Baltic states).

Sometimes I wonder why Stalin made such a decision. Maybe he was affraid of havin Poland within Soviet Union.
It was him, who said once, that communism fits Poland like a saddle fits a cow.

[Long Eared Hair]

Sometimes I wonder why Stalin made such a decision. Maybe he was affraid of havin Poland within Soviet Union.
I think he couldn't do it because of the British and the Americans.
But, Lenin maybe had written something that Poland should be independent. It was widespread among "progressive" Russian intelligentsia in XIX century.

[lizol]

Below you have short biography of Jozef Pilsudski. It's taken from Wikipedia, so I don't suppose it's biased in any way.

Surely Pilsudski was not a pattern of a democtaric politician (who was in Europe at that time).
But - RusIvan -if you want to equalize Pilsudki and Stalin and Poland ruled by Pilsudski with Soviet Union - go on, don't hesitate, but let me not agree with you and to consider such a comparison as offensive.



Jozef Pilsudski (pronounced: ['juzef piw'sutski],December 5, 1867 – May 12, 1935) was a Polish revolutionary and statesman, field marshall, first chief of state (1918-1922) and dictator (1926-1935) of renascent Poland, and founder of her armed forces.

Pilsudski's early life

Born in the village of Zulów (Zalavas, in today's Lithuania) into an impoverished Polish szlachta (noble) family, he attended school in Wilno. In 1885 he studied medicine at Kharkiv, in Ukraine, but was suspended in 1886 as politically suspect. In March 1887 he was arrested by Tsarist authorities on a false charge of plotting to assassinate Tsar Alexander III and was exiled for five years to eastern Siberia. His elder brother, Bronis³aw Pi³sudski, who had been friends with friends of Vladimir Lenin's brother, was similarly sentenced to hard labor (katorga) in eastern Siberia, for fifteen years.

Józef, after his release in 1892, joined the Polish Socialist Party. He began publishing an underground socialist newspaper, Robotnik (The Worker). In February 1900 he was imprisoned in the Warsaw Citadel but, after feigning mental illness, in May 1901 managed to escape from a mental hospital in St. Petersburg, Russia.

On the outbreak of the Russo-Japanese War (1904–1905) Pilsudski traveled to Japan, where he unsuccessfully attempted to obtain that country's assistance for an insurrection in Poland. He offered to supply Japan with intelligence in support of her war with Russia and proposed a plan (never implemented) to create a legion from Poles, conscripted into the Russian army, who had been captured by Japan. He also suggested a "Promethean" project (named for the Greek titan Prometheus, who had been tortured by Zeus while chained to a rock in the Caucasus) directed at breaking up the Russian empire into its ethnic constituents — a goal that he later continued to pursue and that would be partly achieved only in 1991 with the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

First World War

Pilsudski anticipated a coming European war and the need to organize the nucleus of a future Polish army that could help win Poland's independence from the three empires that had partitioned her out of political existence in the late 18th century. With the aid of funds that he had personally "expropriated" from a Russian mail train in a raid at Bezdany near Vilnius in April 1908, that same year he formed a secret military organization. Two years later, with help from the Austrian military authorities, he converted the organization into a legal "Riflemen's Association" which trained Polish military officers.

At a meeting in Paris in 1914, Pilsudski presciently declared that in the imminent war, for Poland to regain her independence, Russia must be beaten by the Central Powers (Austria-Hungary and German Empire), and the Central Powers must in their turn be beaten by France, Britain and the United States.

Pilsudski and his staff in Kielce, 1914Upon the outbreak of World War I, and into 1917, Brigadier General Pilsudski's Polish Legion fought with distinction against Russia at the side of the Central Powers. On November 5, 1916, the latter proclaimed the "independence" of Poland, hoping that as a result Polish troops would be sent to the eastern front against Russia, relieving German forces to bolster the western front. Pilsudski, however, then serving as minister of war in the newly created Polish Regency government, opposed the demand that the Polish units swear loyalty to Germany and Austria. Consequently in July 1917 he was arrested and imprisoned at Magdeburg, Germany.

On November 8, 1918, Pilsudski and his comrade, Colonel Kazimierz Sosnkowski, were released and soon — like Vladimir Lenin before them — placed on a private train, bound for their national capital. On November 11 Pi³sudski was appointed Commander in Chief, and on November 14 Chief of State (Naczelnik Panstwa), of a renascent Polish state.

Polish-Soviet War

Pilsudski aspired to create a federation (to be called Miêdzymorze--"Tween-Seas," stretching once again from the Baltic to the Black Sea) of Poland with Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine, in emulation of the pre-partition Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth that had served its constituent populations well for four centuries. The Commonwealth had given mutual protection to its constituent peoples against the Teutonic Order, the Mongols, the Russians, the Turks, the Swedes and other predatory neighbors until the partitions of the late 18th century. Pilsudski's plan was, however, to be dashed by the outcome of the Polish-Soviet War of 1919-1921.

In April 1920, Marshal Pilsudski (as his rank had been since that March) signed an alliance with Ukraine's Symon Petliura, to conduct joint war against Soviet Russia. The Polish and Ukrainian armies, under Pilsudski's command, launched a successful offensive against the Russian forces in Ukraine. By May 7, having done remarkably little fighting, they had captured Kiev (Ukranian, Kyiv).

The Soviets launched their own offensive from Belarus and counter-attacked in Ukraine, advancing into Poland in a drive toward Germany in order to consolidate the communist revolution underway there. It was Pilsudski's risky, unconventional strategy at the Battle of Warsaw (August 1920) that would halt the Soviet advance.

Pilsudski's plan was for Polish forces to withdraw across the Vistula River and defend the bridgeheads at Warsaw and the Wieprz River, while some 25% of available divisions concentrated to the south for a strategic counteroffensive.

Next Pisudzki's plan required that two armies under General Józef Haller, facing Soviet frontal attack on Warsaw from the east, hold their entrenched positions at all costs. At the same time, an army under General Wladyslaw Sikorski would strike north from behind Warsaw, thus cutting off the Soviet forces attempting to envelope Warsaw from that direction. The most important role, however, was assigned to a relatively small (approximately 20,000-man), newly assembled "Reserve Army" (known also as the "Strike Group" — Grupa Uderzeniowa), commanded personally by Pilsudski, comprising the most determined, battle-hardened Polish units. Their task was to spearhead a lightning northern offensive, from the Vistula-Wieprz River triangle south of Warsaw, through a weak spot identified by Polish intelligence between the Soviet Western and Southwestern Fronts. That offensive would separate the Soviet Western Front from its reserves and disorganize its movements. Eventually, the gap between Sikorski's army and the "Strike Group" would close near the East Prussian border, resulting in the destruction of the encircled Soviet forces.

Pilsudski's plan was strongly criticized at the time, and only the desperate situation of the Polish forces persuaded other army commanders to go along with it. Although based on fairly reliable information provided by Polish intelligence and intercepted Soviet radio communications, the plan was termed "amateurish" by many high-ranking army officers and military experts, who were quick to point out Pilsudski's lack of a formal military education. Furthermore, when a copy of the plan accidentally fell into Soviet hands, it was thought to be a ruse and ignored. Only days later, the Soviets would pay dearly for their mistake.

The Marshal's Polish detractors, however, chose to ironically call his subsequent victory "the Miracle at the Wis³a [i.e., Vistula River]," and sought to ascribe the winning strategy to General Maxime Weygand of the French military mission to Poland. Later, a junior member of that mission, Charles de Gaulle, would adopt some lessons from Pilsudski's career, for his own strikingly similar one.

The Treaty of Riga (1921), closing the Polish-Soviet War, gave the bulk of Belarus and Ukraine to Russia and so marked an end to Pilsudski's federalist dream.

Rise to Power: the Benevolent Dictator

After the Polish constitution adopted in March 1921 (March Constitution) severely limited the powers of the presidency in the new democratic Second Polish Republic, Pilsudski refused to run for the office. In December 1922 he turned over his powers to his friend, the newly elected president, Gabriel Narutowicz. Two days later, Narutowicz was shot to death by a mentally deranged, right-wing, antisemitic painter and art critic who had originally wanted to kill Pilsudski. When a right-wing government subsequently came to power, in May 1923 Pilsudski disgustedly resigned as chief of the general staff and went into retirement outside Warsaw.

Three years later, in May 1926, he returned to power in a military coup d'etat (the May Coup), aided by socialist railwaymen who sidetracked government troop transports. He initiated Sanacja government (1926-1939) — conducted at times by authoritarian means — directed at restoring moral "health" to public life. Although till his death in 1935 he played a preponderant role in Poland's government, his formal offices — apart from two stints as prime minister in 1926-28 and 1930 — were for the most part limited to those of minister of defense and inspector-general of the armed forces. The adoption of a new Polish constitution in April 1935, tailored by Pilsudski's supporters to his specifications — providing for a strong presidency — came too late for Pilsudski to seek that office; but the April Constitution would serve Poland to the outbreak of World War II and would carry its Government in Exile through to the end of the war and beyond.

Pilsudski, as de Gaulle was later to do in France, sought to maintain his country's independence on the international scene. When Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany in January 1933, Pilsudski sounded out Poland's ally, France, regarding the possibility of joint military action against Germany, which had been openly rearming in violation of the Versailles Treaty. When France declined, Pi³sudski was compelled to sign a nonaggression pact with Germany in January 1934. (He had already done so with the Soviet Union in 1932.) He was acutely aware of the shakiness of the nonaggression pacts, remarking sarcastically: "The question remains, which of the stools will we fall off first." Ably assisted by his protege, Minister of Foreign Affairs Jozef Beck, he sought support for Poland in alliances with western powers--France and Great Britain--and with friendly, if less powerful, neighbors: Romania and Hungary.

Hitler repeatedly suggested a German-Polish alliance against the Soviets, but Pilsudski ignored the proposal. He sought time for Poland to prepare to fight when the necessity arose.

Pilsudski was interested less in the trappings than in the reality of power, to be exercised for the security and welfare of his imperiled country. He made a point of drawing no financial profit from public office. As to the socialism that had helped him to power, he famously remarked that he "had taken the red streetcar as far as the stop called Independence and gotten off."

Pilsudski had given Poland something akin to what Henryk Sienkiewicz's pan Zagloba had mused about: a Polish Oliver Cromwell. As such, the Marshal had inevitably drawn both intense loyalty and intense vilification.

By 1935 Pilsudski had, unbeknown to the public, been for several years in declining health. So much the greater was the shock at the passing of the man about whom Joseph Conrad had said: "He was the only great man to emerge on the scene during the [First World] war."

[Pomian]

Hi, it's nice to see the Polish here.

I'm also Polish and new in here.

Is there any Polish section or European section of interests on the Free Republic? You know, articles about Poland, Europe or so.

By the way, how to upload a picture just like of Pilsudski? I can't see any tool for that.

[lizol]

Welcome to FR!

Any new Polish reinforcements are valuable.

As you can see going through this thread - you're going to be busy here :-)))

[Pomian]

Oh, I can see hardtalks here.

"Any new Polish reinforcements are valuable."

I'm not a history master but you can always drop me a line if you have anything interesting.

[lizol]

I will, definitely :-)))

[RusIvan]

Any new Polish reinforcements are valuable.==

I think that on FR we are right by truth not by number of repeatings and loudness of voices. So one pole or many are same if wrong:).

[RusIvan]

But - RusIvan -if you want to equalize Pilsudki and Stalin and Poland ruled by Pilsudski with Soviet Union - go on, don't hesitate, but let me not agree with you and to consider such a comparison as offensive.==

OK I would say that Pilsidskii was leader of smaller scale then Stalin but of same time.
So what he did wasn't so huge as Stalin's deeds but if he would be on place of Stalin then who knows. At least he partioned Checkoslovakia BEFORE Stalin's partition. And Poland has comcentration camps too like Germany. In polish captivity may POWs of Red army perished BEFORE and in bigger number then Stalin's massacre in Katyn.
So you see if you can see.

One difference so. Pulsudskii was nationalist but Stalin was INTERnationalist as all commies.
So Pilsudskii was good for poles but bad for ukranians and bellorussians whose land he occupied in 1922.
BUT Stalin was same good and bad for everyone. Stalin didn't recognise borders and nations. He intruded anywhere for sake of his ideas and power.

Now Russia is ruled by nationalistic leader for once for maybe 70 years. SO NOW Putin is suitable for russians but maybe he is not for poles or other foreigners.
Russia is better under Putin rule. Becoming stronger and more stable. Someone of "damned friends" (as russians call them) are somewhat unhappy:).