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To: Blood of Tyrants
Since you appear to be Jewish, I will not argue the point with you. However, I will say this: No matter how hard you try, you WILL break some Jewish law. You cannot be justified through the law only convicted by it. Even today our laws exist only to notify of accepetable and unacceptable behavior and to punish.

Your point was to declare authoritatively WHY G-d gave the 'Law' to the Jewish people. No one has ever said that one is 'justified' by keeping Torah. Many Christians have a completely twisted view of how Judaism has viewed Torah - not as a method to achieve perfection, thereby meriting the World To Come, but rather as a gift from an all-loving Abba, blessed be He.

These errant views come from anacronistic Greek/Gnostic readings into the 'New Testament', which sees all Platonic/Christian thought as enlightened, and all the ancient rites as passe. The 'New Testament' contest is not between 'Law vs. Grace' as so many have errantly followed. No, the contest is between faithfully following G-d, or rebelling against Him. This is the same message of the TaNaKh ('Old Testament' to you). Traditional Christianity turns the 'Law' on its head and makes obedience to G-d's loving instructions to be something bad, and the rejection of His instructions to be something good. Woe to those who call good evil, and evil good.

Many people who hold to this errant view of 2/3rds of your Bible are confounded to explain that within the Torah are the very commands regarding sacrifices for sin etc. In other words, it was not about 'earning' the World to Come.

As well, such an errant view of the 'Law' is struck dumb in explaining why beastiality (among other things) is morally wrong, without using the book of Leviticus. So... by not practicing such things, are you trying to justify yourself and be saved? If not, then be courteous enough not to say that those who delight in keeing the Sabbath are somehow being punished by G-d by giving them a command that only 'condemns' as you said. Maybe they just treasure ALL of G-d's words and do not pick and choose between them.

Now go read Psalms 119 and repent.
221 posted on 05/17/2005 5:17:25 PM PDT by safisoft (Give me Torah!)
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To: safisoft
Traditional Christianity turns the 'Law' on its head and makes obedience to G-d's loving instructions to be something bad, and the rejection of His instructions to be something good.

Absolutely incorrect. There is no "traditional Christian" church that teaches that His law can and should to be disobeyed without regard. In fact, it teaches the OPPOSITE. In Romans we are specifically told that we are to be witnesses for G-d every day with our behavior. Where did you get this idea anyway?

254 posted on 05/17/2005 7:26:56 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (G-d is not a Republican. But Satan is definitely a Democrat.)
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To: safisoft

"Traditional Christianity turns the 'Law' on its head and makes obedience to G-d's loving instructions to be something bad, and the rejection of His instructions to be something good."

Can we say, for the sake of discussion, that there are two entities descended from Judaism: Christianity and Christendom. Let us define Christendom as that group often referred to as "Traditional Christianity" making Christianity the group who follow the Way, as in, "I am the Way the Truth and the Life; no man comes to the Father but by me."

In Isaiah 62:11 it is written: Behold, the LORD hath proclaimed Unto the end of the earth: Say ye to the daughter of Zion: "Behold, thy salvation cometh; Behold, His reward is with Him." What is the Hebrew word translated salvation? Do the pronouns His and Him refer back to the salvation which cometh? Why do you think that Christianity does not believe this verse?

Yeshua haMashiach was asked: "What is the great commandment?" He answered: "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets." As the Law was important to Him, so it is important to those who follow Him. So, though Christendom may "turn the Law on its head" Christianity seeks to know the Law as it appears in the Tanakh. We wish to know the words of the prophets, so that we may know the will of HaShem.

When I ask questions, no matter how impertinent they seem, it is to make all of us think. Only by keeping the Word in our minds and our hearts can we ever hope to know what the Creator and Father of us all would that we do to glorify Him. I am a believer who follows the Way. And I believe that the Sabbath begins as the sun sets on Friday evening and the First day begins at the same hour on Saturday. Neither of us should look down upon the other for keeping or not keeping either day.

May He who neither slumbers nor sleeps hold you in the palm of His hand. May you one day wake to see Him face to face.


289 posted on 05/17/2005 8:53:22 PM PDT by lifelongsoldier (Blessed art Thou oh LORD our GOD, King of the universe, and blessed are Thy chosen people.)
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