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To: Hermann the Cherusker
The bombing of downtown Rotterdam was a mistake from confused orders, as was the initial bombing of civilian portions of London.

Do you actually expect any fair-minded person to believe that tripe? Stop deluding yourself with Nazi apologist propaganda. It's true that the allies killed more German civilians in bombing raids than the other way around, but it's proposterous to claim that the Luftwaffe's unprecidented mass bombing of allied civilians was purely the result of "confused orders". Hitler used massive bombing compaigns with the express intent of terrorizing the allied nations, Britain in particular. That doesn't mean he only attacked civilian areas, but breaking Britain's national spirit with heavy civilian casualties was a tactic of psychological warfare that Hitler made no attempt to hide.

Much of the allied bombing of Dresden and even of Berlin can be seen today in our comfortable position looking back on history as outrageous overkill. However, in the throes of battle it is not always so easy to determine the exact amount of military action needs to be taken, especially when the uncertainty of a horrific war looms over your psyche. Did a desire for vengeance have anything to do with the decision to bomb Dresden? It's likely, but what can you expect from a nation that had itself first been bombed continually by the Luftwaffe? Nobody knows the true number of civilians killed in the Dresden firebombing, and as such many people (including Nazi apologists and anti-American leftists) have inflated the number to astronomical highs and have gotten away with it. I agree that looking in hindsight it may not have been justified, but I don't know that I could have said the same were I in charge of making strategic decisions at that point in the war. Either way, your casting Churchill as a demon-teutophobe seeking only bloody revenge, and Britain's and America's roles in WW2 as morally equivalent to Germany's genocide is intellectually dishonest.

47 posted on 05/09/2005 1:26:57 PM PDT by Chappaquiddick Crawdad ("E unum pluribus"? Perhaps you meant "ex uno plures", or is that "stultus sum"? hmmm...)
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To: Chappaquiddick Crawdad
Do you actually expect any fair-minded person to believe that tripe? Stop deluding yourself with Nazi apologist propaganda.

http://www.holland.com/oorlogssporen/gb/index.html?page=http://www.holland.com/oorlogssporen/gb/operations/1940.html

De officiële site van Nederlands Bureau voor Toerisme & Congressen

BOMBING OF ROTTERDAM
Hitler had envisioned needing only one day to beat the Dutch army. The operation was now stretching into five days. On May 14, 1940 General Schmidt (German Commander of the 39th Army Corps) issued an ultimatum to Colonel Scharroo, the Dutch Commander of Rotterdam. Rotterdam was to be destroyed if the troops did not surrender. General Winkelman, Commander-in-Chief of the Dutch armed forces, wanted to play for time. He asked Scharroo to request a second ultimatum. Schmidt ordered the bombardment postponed due to the further surrender negotiations. He had a new ultimatum drawn up at 1:20 p.m. and allowed Scharroo three hours to surrender. However, German bombers appeared within mere minutes. Panicking, Schmidt ordered red flares to be let off to indicate surrender. It was too late. One squadron could abort its attack in time, but the planes approaching from the east dropped their bombs on the City. The bombing lasted for fifteen minutes and the resulting disruption was beyond belief. Houses were on fire and the power failed. The whole city was in a state of chaos. Rotterdam mourned some 800 dead, while 78,000 people were homeless. Half an hour before the second ultimatum expired, Scharroo signed the surrender of Rotterdam.

Life is too short to have historical discussions with people who don't even know history.

Hitler used massive bombing compaigns with the express intent of terrorizing the allied nations, Britain in particular.

No, you've got it all backwards. This was the British and American policy - terror bombing of civilians, including not just Germany and Japan but also Italy and occupied France (why do you think the French hate Americans so?). I doubt you could even name a German air-raid where mroe than 1000 people died.

The Cato Institute (Nazi Apologists????) has an article on the subject here:

http://www.fff.org/freedom/0995d.asp

However, in the throes of battle it is not always so easy to determine the exact amount of military action needs to be taken, especially when the uncertainty of a horrific war looms over your psyche.

Are you familiar with the harmless medieval town of Rothenburg-ob-der-Tauber? In the "throes of battle" on Easter Sunday in 1945, a bomber group decided that having run out of other targets, now would be a good time to flatten Rothenburg, so they did. I think its fairly easy to question such decisions as they are happening.

Don't get hyper-focused on Dresden. What was done to Dresden was what was done to nearly every city and town from Normandy to Lithuania.

Britain's and America's roles in WW2 as morally equivalent to Germany's genocide is intellectually dishonest.

Killing innocent civilians is killing innocent civilians. Period. There is total moral equivalence.

Had the Anglo-American forces lost, the Wehrmacht War Crimes Burueau would have strung up "Bomber" Harris and Gen. Eisenhower just as quickly as we hung Gen. Keitel and Air Marshall Goering. And with just as much justice I might add.

50 posted on 05/09/2005 1:47:54 PM PDT by Hermann the Cherusker
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