Ivory-Billed Woodpecker Rediscovered in Arkansas

NPR ^ | 5/28/05 | NPR

[Ditter]

We had a 100 ft tall pine tree in our back yard that took 5 years to die. It had been struck by lightning I guess. Until we had to taken down because it became dangerous, we had the Pileated Woodpecker in our yard every day. I think he lived there. Now I only see and hear him occasionally.

[mel]

I agree with what you said, but I am really excited about this find. It is just fascinating. I hope it is not this lone male.

[conservativeconservationist]

And..? Yes, honeybees were imported by Eurpeans apparently almost 400 years ago. Of course we had many pollinators at that time, none producing honey I suppose.

The bees have been naturalized for such a long time, that to lose them at this point could be calamitous. They pollinate about 25% ot the world's flowering plants. It is still be debated as to whether their pollinating has had a detrimental affect on native bees.

In any case, the loss of perhaps 80% of colonies in some areas, is already having consequences for fammers. Many of them raising non native crop. Citrus farmers in Floriada are beng affected, not to mention the almond growers. And one of the largest aliens species introduced in the US is cattle. Cattle eat clover as part of their diet. What will our ranch folks do if their cows aren't thriving so well because the honybee isn't there

[WFTR]

How about prothonotary warblers? One of them helped Whittaker Chambers prove Alger Hiss was lying.

That fact is what makes seeing them so exciting for me. They are also very beautiful birds.

[WFTR]

Why is this bird so fragile. We live in a developed area and have piliateds out the wazoo. What's the diff?

The Ivory-billed Woodpecker became too specialized. Their strength and size developed so that they could eat specific beatle larva inside the thick bark of freshly dead or dying trees. They need large expanses of forest to provide enough of these trees for them to have food. They needed large amounts of a resource that people needed in large amounts as well. They lost. I'm a birdwatcher, and I'm also excited about the find. I'm not willing to see further loss of property rights over them.

Bill

[WFTR]

Has NW Pa. ever been considered part of their range?

I'm pretty sure that they never lived that far north. Of course, they may have avoided Pennsylvania because the Pennsylvanians kept mistaking them for turkeys.

[WFTR]

I see the points that you are trying to make, but some of your arguments are poor. First, trying to draw an analogy to the victims of Muslim terrorism was both inaccurate and insulting to those victims. Secondly, the issue is what to do next, and many conservatives are concerned the liberals using this issue to leverage taking more of our rights and freedoms.

The big point around the Ivory-billed Woodpecker is that it needs a tremendous amount of resources to survive. Unfortunately, it needed those resources at a time when the rest of the country needed those resources as well. It lost. There's a lesson there about not becoming too specialized. Filling a niche is nice, but that strategy is a ticket to starvation if the niche could disappear. Teaching people that truth is still more important than saving one species of bird.

That situation is tremendously different from the situation of the victims of Muslim jihadists. They weren't taking any more resources than anyone else was. They were just living their normal lives until they were killed by enemies of our country. The survival lesson in that situation is that we must kill our enemies or force them to surrender before those enemies kill us.

I think it would be great if we bring back the Ivory-billed Woodpecker. I've been bird-watching for a few years, and I'd love to see one. However, I wouldn't make that effort at the expense of property rights. It's easy for people to scream for preservation of something when they aren't the ones who have to make the sacrifice. It's easy when they don't work in an industry that would be impacted by effort. I don't think conservatives are against these animals as much as they are for preserving individual liberty and rights.

I hope that your post won't be your only post to Free Republic. While I found fault with the argument that you made, I appreciate that you brought some interesting and specialized knowledge to our discussion. I think there is a time and place for conservation. I love hiking, bird-watching, kayaking, and other outdoor pursuits. I've spent a great deal of time in our national parks. I think your perspective is a good one to have represented at Free Republic.

Bill

[WFTR]

I would freeze in disbelief if I ever happened upon a bobcat.

I did too. It was particularly surprising because I was on the outskirts of Houston.

[Koblenz]

Damn, first they find that crazy bride, now they find an extinct bird. Who else is going to turn up today?

[Verginius Rufus]

...first they find that crazy bride, now they find an extinct bird. Who else is going to turn up today?

A moderate Democrat?

[conservativeconservationist]

I didn't mean to be flippant about the parallels between the Ivory and human suffering. I am surprised no one called me on it before you.

I do understand that the situations are completely different. Incomparable really. I was only trying to illustrate how illogical and tragic is the theory that adaptability equals right to life. I just wanted the perpetrators of this philosophy to stop and think what that would mean for humans in general. Whether it be the examples I mentioned or on a larger scale. Perhaps an overwhelming number of super human creatures show up and destroy our resources while at the same time hunting us for our scalps. We wouldn't fare well, more than likely. I was just trying to put the analogy in a context that most anyone could get. I mean, if they really believe that if something cannot adapt, it doesn't need to live, they must apply that to themselves or revise their theory a bit. My opinion.

I in no way meant to say or imply that there were any similarities between the bird and say 911 victims other than that they were victims of ambush; differing degrees certainly. I certainly wasn't saying that WTC victims were attacked because of resources they were using. I wasn't saying anything about the cause of the attack. I simply used those examples to try and put this on a human equation for some humans who can't seem to see things in any other terms.

Anyway, I am sorry to those I may have offended. I do not hold animal and human life in equal value.

[conservativeconservationist]

Let me qualify my previous statement with this. According to a Catesby, British Naturalist, Native Americans of the North, were fond of wearing white bill headdresses and collecting the bills in general. Supposedly, they bought these from Southerners because there were none of the birds in their area. Of course at this time, as early as 1712-1725, North and South were not the same relative to the present. Also, Indians have been found buried with the white bills in Colorado, which supposedly was never in the range. Of course, it's just assumed they bought them too.

So anyway, as far as is known to be recorded in our American history, Ivory Bills occurred as far north as southern Illinois, arguably southern Indiana, very arguably Maryland, unproven in Ohio but theorized to have hung out there 500-800 years ago.

Anyhow, I still believe I read something about some guy- maybe a soused guy- claiming to have sited one in PA, a long time ago. I like to read antique natural history books, so if I read it it should come back to me. But if someone claimed it, all the experts out there would not accept it. But stranger things have happened in the ornithology world. Sometimes, some European bird who has no business anywhere near this continent will turn up. If there are old woodland swamp areas in PA, there is an off chance they could have made it there. Or perhaps, they have adapted a bit after 200 plus years of persecution.

[conservativeconservationist]

The above post is for Lafroste. Sorry.

[conservativeconservationist]

Sorry, post 132 is for Lafroste.

[WFTR]

Thanks for the clarification on your original post. I think what I'm understanding you to say is that we shouldn't capriciously put stressors on native animal populations and particularly those populations that could be endangered. On that point, I think we agree. You and I might weigh costs and benefits somewhat differently when certain decisions require us to consider those stressors. Those decisions are always difficult.

Thanks for pinging me on the question about the traditional range for the IBWP. I was interested in the question as well.

I live in Louisiana and am on a listserve with some of the folks who've played a part in all of this work. I'll try to pass along any good gossip that I hear.

Thanks,
Bill

[RadioAstronomer]

Nice to see that probably the most important piece of news about American wildlife in the last 50 years doesn't qualify as breaking news, but Rush Limbaugh's drug habit does.

Sigh. However, did you expect anything different?