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To: winstonchurchill

Now, you swing steppin' away from the box. Swing and a miss... at least try to present yourself in a direct way or just hang your head all the way to the dugout, boyo. The facts of my prior posts to you stand True. Yet, you argue about the Pitcher, the Catcher and the Ump- when a simple minded right fielder catches your fouled ball...


305 posted on 04/05/2005 7:45:35 PM PDT by Treader ( go ahead, suit your-self ... just remember who dressed ya)
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To: Treader
There's a default here too. It's called feeding people. So the default is: we keep force feeding people who want to die. No, that's not right.

It is certainly common enough in mental hospitals, and I haven't heard too many arguments against it.

Oh dear. All the 'fresh air and sunshine' in the world are not going to solve the literal dissolution of poor Terri's brain. Only her brain stem was left.

How do you know that?

More important, notice the shifting of your premise. Somehow removing some (supposed) evil-doer is going to add another choice. No, Terri had two and only two options; both of them sad: (i)continued forced feeding and diapering for the indefinite future or (ii) death. I realize that Hollywood's made-for-TV movies promise you a 'happy ending', but there is none here -- just relentless facts. No brain, no cognitive ability. Ever. Ever. Sunshine or not. No cognitive ability ever.

How do you know that Terri wouldn't recover if she was actually allowed more therapy? Until therapy was stopped, her prognosis had been favorable.

Are you saying that we tend to say we would want to die when we see others in such circumstances, but when we actually get there, we want to cling to life? If so, I don't agree. I think the opposite. It is almost always the loved ones (who will be left behind) who want to cling to absurd hopes. The person actually at death's door is usually ready to open it.

There is a big difference between people who have a terminal condition and those who have a non-terminal but disabling condition. If Terri was terminal 15 years ago, she wouldn't have been alive last month. Someone with terminal cancer may decide that a month of being up and about is better than nine months of being bedridden. A decision to stop chemo doesn't mean a person wants to die, but rather that they want to live as well as they can before they do.

Why, then, do you presume Terri was suffering in any way that could not have been cured with fresh air, sunshine, and attention from loved ones?

Because, my dear, she wasn't suffering from pale skin or loneliness. She was suffering from a dissolved brain. Sad, but true. The right course -- indeed I contend the only moral course -- was followed. I am glad for Terri's sake that she has passed on.

How did you become such an expert on neurology?

Terri's parents believed that they could communicate with her. Not at a conversational verbal level, but probably at a level comparable to my communication with my cat. I let him know when his presence would make me happy, or when he's being a pest, and he lets me know when I'm making him happy or when he wants me to do something for him.

Very important point. Your cat exists for your benefit. He is an animal. Terri did not exist for her parents' benefit. She was (prior to her cardiac arrest) a functioning human being, made in the image of God. It would have been a travesty to continue force feeding Terri and keep her 'alive' at the functioning level of your cat because her parents wanted it. Only Terri's wishes count -- not her parents.

If Terri had been trying to express her will to live three weeks ago, such expression should have overruled any statement made fifteen years ago, should it not? A number of people, many of whom would have little financial interest in Terri's survival, have indicated that she attempts to communicate. Unfortunately, Michael has forbidden any efforts at allowing Terri's efforts to communicate to be rendered into tangible form. Why do you suppose he would have done such a thing?

I see no reason to disbelieve the perceptions of many people that Terri was relaxed when her parents were around, and became agitated when she was left in the presence of Michael. Since Terri's attitude toward her parents would suggest her approval of them, that would tend to imply an approval of what they were doing.

Had Michael allowed such a thing, it would have been possible to test Terri's apparent limitted communication abilities in such a way as to produce clear tangible results. Unfortunately, Michael forbid all such efforts. To my mind, the most logical reason for his behavior is that he was afraid Terri might want to live and might be able to communicate that fact.

BTW, people who don't want to live don't survive almost two weeks without water.

312 posted on 04/05/2005 9:06:12 PM PDT by supercat ("Though her life has been sold for corrupt men's gold, she refuses to give up the ghost.")
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