Minutemen Prepare to Lay Down the Law

latimes.com via Yahoo ^ | April 2, 2005 | David Kelly

[texaspirate]

TOMBSTONE, Ariz. — They came by the hundreds Friday, men and women from across the nation, hearts brimming with righteous anger, determined to staunch the flow of illegal immigration.

Some wore pistols slung low on their hips. Others walked the dusty streets in leather cowboy hats, wearing buttons that read: "Undocumented Border Patrol Agent." There were pilots, window washers, private investigators and exterminators.

[Once-Ler]

Are you saying the klan and the commies are conspiring together to make the MMP look bad?

[Once-Ler]

Not too mention the drain that may occur when more people take advantage of available government programs.

That is a problem that needs to be addressed. Either taxes need to be raised, the programs need to be reduced, or more workers are needed to pay for the elderly, disabled, and unemployed(unemployable). I don't believe most illegals are taking advantage of these programs because they fear deportation. An increase in legal immigrants will likely increase the number of people using SS, unemployment insurance, disability, and other American forms of socialism.

I don't have an answer how we can turn back the clock on American socialism. Dubya's SS initiative looks like a good first step. It is not so scary for American leeches that they will vote for the rats who promise them everything, yet it puts us on a path toward giving the individual the freedom to secure his own retirement fund. Perhaps the same approach can be made with medical savings account, and unemployment account.

[judgeandjury]

I do not support the National Council of La Raza because of their socialist ideology. I have only defended it against the lies you keep spreading. You have attempted to label them racist. As I have already told you many times La Raza is a cultural term that translates into "the people" and "the nation."

There is more than one definition for the word "racist". "Racist" doesn't necessarily mean to hate people of other races. In my dictionary, one listed definition for the word "racist" is this:

"discriminatory especially on the basis of race or religion"

Since The National Council of La Raza works to help only Latinos, and by doing so it discriminates against non-Latinos, The National Council of La Raza is by definition a racist organization.

[Modok]

I believe they are using this as an opportunity to benefit themselves. As property owners stand up for their private property rights both the racists and the communists lose. But they will distort the efforts by owners of private property to control their property and prevent trespassing by people they do not want on their property.

[Once-Ler]

Groups that seek to advance a peticular segment of the population do exclude the rest of the population. this is not racism under my definition. There is a differance between MEChA which seeks to demote white influence and Brotherhood Organization for a New Destiny (BOND) which seeks to elivate blacks.

By your definition Jesse Lee Peterson is a racist.

[WRhine]

You are naive or willfully ignorant if you do not think the Klan is participating and cheering on the MMK.

The real story is: You are naive or willfully ignorant if you do not think the National Council of La Raza ("The Race") is participating and cheering on the creation of Azlan Nation...to be carved out of the America's SW. Why are you so naive and willfully ignorant of the objectives of an immigrant advocacy group from a hostile nation that still believes the South Western territory of America rightly belongs to Mexico?

And since you are big on guilt by incidental association, The Communist Party is very much on the side of the Open Borders Lobby and has always advocated mass 3rd world immigration in 1st world nations. By your logic, are you a communist?

[HighFlier]

Pass the word along. I think you're right. That article tells a lot.

[HighFlier]

Thanks for the response.

Have you heard of the welfare program SSI?

I bring that program up because it is a favorite target by immigrant groups. All someone needs to do is claim an "injury" that causes a "disability," such as hypertension or back trouble, and they can collect a check from the government. Also, a friend of mine who works in manufacturing in California tells me of the widespread use of workmans' comp for "stress", almost all of his employees have been from Mexico.

Perhaps a lot of these abuses are done by ordinary Americans, but what my research has shown me is that word travels fast amongst foreigners who come here specifically for the welfare benefits. You and I may not know of many of these programs, but you'd better believe the illegals and many legal immigrants are well versed on how the suck the most out of our system.

I would like to see the entire process slow down, allow us a little time for evaluation and to curtail many of the expenses that are solely a result of massive immigration.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

And to think just three months ago the GOP was more unified than it has been perhaps in it's history.

By 2008 illegal immigration will be the defining issue so whatever split there is now I predict isn't going to last long. Tom Tancredo, if he doesn't win outright is going to force the candidates to take a tough position.

[Once-Ler]

All someone needs to do is claim an "injury" that causes a "disability," such as hypertension or back trouble, and they can collect a check from the government.

SSI is the new home for AFDC mothers and men who are too screwed up or lazy to work. I am familiar with workman's comp. Anyone in a management position should know about it. Legitimate and fraudulent claims are a huge cost on government and business. Multi-million dollar lawsuits for scamming employees who slip on a wet floor are costing small grocery store owners to go bankrupt and dangers from hot coffee severely impede growth in larger companies. I am surprised many people bother to start a business. You need an accountant to do your complex taxes and a lawyer to circumvent red tape, regulations, and legal pitfalls. If OSHA doesn't shut you down, or employees or customers don't sue you, or the global market place doesn't crush you, then you get to pay the government half of your earnings so the government can fix illegal immigration and shrink the workforce.

I would not wish to be a business owner right now.

I'm all for reforming workman's comp to make it easier to discover fraud, but I don't think many illegal employees have the brass to cheat it. The government will pay cheaters for medical costs and lost wages but, they get some of the cost from the offending business. If a business knows the employee is illegal they simply alert the INS of the employees address. I bet most workman's comp filings are for legal citizens.

Of course CA is a liberal state with a large immigrant population. They may not even ask for a SS card. Truthfully I don't know my own states procedure for determining if a SSI recipient is legally eligible for benefits but I bet most illegals don't take a chance on getting deported. The INS deported one million people in 2003. Over 100,000 cases were from investigations in the US not the border. That means about 300 people are caught, processed, sent home everyday. With the numbers I read from your side, we could double triple and quadruple spending on INS and still not even keep pace with the new illegals entering...that still leaves us with 15 million undocumented illegals in the US now.

It seems logical to me that many of those illegals have eluded deportation for years and are likely going to be harder to locate than the 100,000 who are found. It also seems logical that if these illegals do not have criminal tendencies and have a employer who desires their work they may never be found, unless they are enticed with the promise of eventual citizenship, or unless we give the government enough power to look into the lives of anyone they suspect may be illegal.

I prefer the guest worker program because it rectifies 2 problems. It documents the illegal and doesn't shrink the workforce. Just removing the illegal leaves a vacuum for the next illegal to fill.

[Travis McGee]

You are naive or willfully ignorant if you do not think the Klan is participating and cheering on the MMK. You can do your own web search for stormfront aryan nations or christian identity and see for yourself.

There you go again, throwing down the race card. Pathetic.

But thanks for keeping the thread bumped with your many replies. With your (unwitting) help thousands of lurkers will read the article.

U.S. Constitution Article 4 Section 4:

"The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government,

and shall protect each of them against Invasion;"

[Travis McGee]

La Raza is a cultural term that translates into "the people" and "the nation."

Exactly right.

And "Nazi Party" is a cultural term that means "Jolly Fellows Singing German Folk Songs in Beer Halls."

Amd "Ku Klux Klan" is a cultural term which means, "Strumming banjos and sipping mint juleps by the Suwanee River."

Once-ler, you crack me up. Sometimes, I almost think you really believe that "LA RAZA" does not mean "THE RACE."

[streetpreacher]

Smell it? Had to wipe my shoes off.

[Once-Ler]

You are naive or willfully ignorant if you do not think the National Council of La Raza ("The Race") is participating and cheering on the creation of Azlan Nation.

A Yahoo search for the word Aztlan yields 5 hits from www.nclr.org because of an affiliated public charter school called the Aztlan Academy.

A Yahoo search for MEChA or mecha from www.nclr.org yields no results.

National Council of La Raza sure is keeping quite about the links you claim they have with aztlan and mecha. I ain't seeing a lot of cheering like I see at stormfront for the Minuteman Project. I got 79 hits. aryan nations has the Minuteman Project plastered all over their frontpage with a link to the MMP webpage.

The Communist Party is very much on the side of the Open Borders Lobby

Your changing the subject and I'm not for open borders. I'm for increasing legal immigration to meet the need for labor, and I'm against illegal immigration. I'm for enforcing the borders and I believe it is unfair to say the people at the INS and The border patrol are not trying to do that. They apprehend about 3,000 people a day. The MMP got 18 today.

[Once-Ler]

I have no interest in coresponding with you. The past has shown that you must call on the Admin Monitor when you are unable to defend your opinions. Have a nice day.

[Once-Ler]

I have no interest in coresponding with you. The past has shown that you must call on the Admin Monitor when you are unable to defend your opinions. Have a nice day.

[WRhine]

I do not support the National Council of La Raza because of their socialist ideology.

That's a laughable assertion considering the great lengths you have gone to defend this subversive organization on FR time and again.

I have only defended it against the lies you keep spreading. You have attempted to label them racist. As I have already told you many times La Raza is a cultural term that translates into "the people" and "the nation."

No lies, only the truth. The “direct” translation of “La Raza” IS "The Race" which even you have admitted to on at least one occasion. So why are you now trying to put a slightly better spin on the meaning by saying it only means "the people" and "the nation" which also, by the way, carries ethnic and national connotations?

Let's do a little experiment. Let's substitute your “new” translations for “La Raza” into the full name of the NCLR Ok?

With your first new translation the NCLR becomes the "National Council of the People". What people are we talking about? Since I’m pretty sure the meaning of “the people”, the NCLR’s socialist leanings aside, is not in the same context as “the people” referenced in Marxist ideology it becomes clear that this is really just another politically correct way of saying “The Race”. Right?

Now let’s try the "National Council of The Nation". Hmm, doesn't quite work does it? It seems a little redundant.

All this leaves me wondering what drives you to employ the most specious, one directional reasoning in your ridiculous attempts to redefine the original and true intended meaning of La Raza.

[WRhine]

Your changing the subject and I'm not for open borders.

How is pointing out that the Communist Party is on the same side as the Republican Party Open Border Lobby any different than you saying White Racist Groups are on the side of the MMP? If you don't like guilt by associations don't make them.

I'm for increasing legal immigration to meet the need for labor,

Which is just another way of saying “unlimited immigration” because businesses, no matter how low the labor costs, can always lobby for yet even cheaper labor. Right?

and I'm against illegal immigration.

Thanks for the laugh but your posts over the years speak for themselves.

[Once-Ler]

I have already explained this to you many times. Try and follow me this time. What does "La Raza" mean and where does it come from? La Raza is a cultural term that can mean race people or nation. Answer.com Defines La Raza as

n. Mexicans or Mexican Americans considered as a group, sometimes extending to all Spanish-speaking people of the Americas. [American Spanish, the people.]

You think it is some conspiracy. I provided links for La Raza 97.9 a radio station and Monterrey LA RAZA Soccer team but their are hundreds more.
Galería de la Raza an art website
Raza ® :Cheap Prepaid Phone Cards, Cheap International Calling Cards
La Raza Youth Leadership
Periodico La Raza -- Hispanic newspaper out of Chicago
La Raza Group a group of artists.
La Clinica de La Raza a clinic in Oakland CA
WLKQ-FM 'La Raza 102.3FM' in Atlanta, Georgia another radio station
La Raza cancels car show Here's a story on the first annual La Raza Car and Truck Show.
Here's the scores for the La Raza baseball team.

I've only scratched the surface. There are hundreds more. All of these people and organizations are NOT part of your conspiracy to destroy America. If you look for yourself you will find racist organizations like stormfront spouting the same distortions you are spewing. Next time you don't know what you are talking about and the truth comes boinking you on the noggin stop digging the hole you are in and think for yourself.

I have been to the National Council of La Raza's website. There is no racism to be found. Have you gone there?

[Travis McGee]

Once-ler, I could care less if you want to correspond with me. It's an open forum. You post, you get replies.

I understand that you're miffed, because in the past you have been banned for going too far with your race-baiting.

I understand that you're also upset, because your compadre Cultural Jihad has been banned for calling those who want to defend the COnstitution "Timothy McVeigh."

So I can well understand your reluctance to tangle with me.

But as long as you post on this open forum, I'm free to put in my dos centavos about what you say.

Oh, and thanks for keeping the thread bumped.