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A National Sales Tax
Town Hall ^ | March 31, 2005 | George Will

Posted on 03/31/2005 4:42:13 AM PST by CSM

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To: lewislynn
The tax is "of the gross payment" including itself and any other taxes, fees excises included in a "gross payment". The 23% rate in sales tax terms is 30%. $100.00 plus 30% federal tax = $130.00 23% of $130.00 (gross payment) = $30.00 (federal sales tax)

Actually, the equivalent tax exclusive rate is 29.87%. Otherwise your math is correct. However, under current law I have to earn $148.48 (25% marginal tax rate) to buy the $100.00 item. I would rather earn $130.

61 posted on 03/31/2005 8:44:17 AM PST by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: CSM
I'm all for it. But it will never happen. I think deep down, we all know this.

It's like waiting for "world peace" to happen. It's a noble goal, but we'll always longingly talk about it.

Lobbyists make laws, not elected officials.

62 posted on 03/31/2005 8:44:36 AM PST by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: Stu Cohen
I'm all for it. But it will never happen. I think deep down, we all know this. It's like waiting for "world peace" to happen. It's a noble goal, but we'll always longingly talk about it. Lobbyists make laws, not elected officials.

Well, might as well just go crawl in a hole somewhere.

63 posted on 03/31/2005 8:47:32 AM PST by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: rwrcpa1
Well, might as well just go crawl in a hole somewhere.

I wouldn't go as far as to crawl in a hole. But you will be filing tax forms for the rest of your life.

Whether or not that is "hole worthy" is a matter of personal preference.

64 posted on 03/31/2005 8:49:21 AM PST by Stu Cohen (Press '1' for English)
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To: Logos124

It is not that new of an idea. I would support it only if the income tax Amendment were repealed. Otherwise, they would pass the NRST and eventually creep the income tax back in when they needed more $ - instead of cutting spending.

One downside is that older people who have already paid income tax on all their income would be double-taxed on their savings.

One work-around is to provide a tax rebate based on age that would phase out over 10-20 years. Of course, an NRST plan includes an automatic payment to every household to return the tax paid on poverty level spending. I.e. if the poverty level were set a $15,000 per year, each person would receive $2300 in tax rebates ($256 per month check in the mail). Another rebate could be offered based on age.


65 posted on 03/31/2005 8:52:49 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: mysterio

i The IRS will have to be expanded to include its own army to collect the tax.

No, the IRS would become functionaries. The taxes would be mostly collected at the state level, since most states already have a sales tax bureau in place - and they are already very strict. In return for their collection efforts they would gain apx .25 or .5% of the sales tax to cover the cost of the additional work.


66 posted on 03/31/2005 8:55:22 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: rwrcpa1

Real estate, for example.

Say you want to buy a newly constructed home (since it's new the tax would apply). It's a $200,000 home, you have 10%, or $20,000 to put down. But-with the tax, you actually now need over $69,000-your down payment plus the tax (this doesn't even figure in closing costs which would probably remain the same). The bank is not going to lend more than the house is worth, so you can't get the house and have to buy an existing "used" home. The construction biz would go belly-up without several years to cushion the blow.

Also-the effect it would have on those that have saved money for years and already paid tax on it having to pay tax again to use it.

I LOVE the national sales tax idea, but these are some concerns I have.


67 posted on 03/31/2005 8:56:44 AM PST by RockinRight (Electing Hillary president would be akin to giving a drunken teenage boy keys to the Porsche)
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To: refermech

Another downside is that the 23% (Etched In Stone) rate could be changed for various items. Alcohol, tobacco, and firearms could be taxed at one rate, medical services at another. Imports from Britain, Canada, China, Mexico, and Greece at one rate, from India, Italy, and Indonesia at another.

The prospect for social engineering are great enough to get even Democrats to support the bill.


68 posted on 03/31/2005 8:57:41 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: CSM
it costs the average small business $724 to collect and remit $100.

It costs the company I work for over $100,000 per year to pay apx $100,000 in taxes - payroll and state taxes. It is ridiculous.

69 posted on 03/31/2005 8:58:34 AM PST by monkeyshine
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To: Ditto

Why wouldn't Congress create a "Tax Stablization and Simplification Board" whose job it would be to raise taxes?


70 posted on 03/31/2005 9:01:16 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: Mikey

You've got it exactly right


71 posted on 03/31/2005 9:01:55 AM PST by mombrown1 (The CPAC taxi driver)
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To: varon

Does this mean that a housewife would no longer be able to barter with the plumber for a lower price? Much of the underground economy is just swapping labor.


72 posted on 03/31/2005 9:04:27 AM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
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To: tomahawk

This fixes Social Security. It takes a percentage of tax and puts it into a lock box. There would no longer be any FICA deducted from your paycheck.


73 posted on 03/31/2005 9:05:13 AM PST by mombrown1 (The CPAC taxi driver)
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To: Your Nightmare

"What a horrible article. I never knew George Will was so gullible. It sounds like he was just taking dictation from Linder. Practically every paragraph has something wrong or, at least, extremely questionable."

LOL What a bummer for you, YN. Everytime a public figure says something positive about the FairTax, you attack the messenger. So predictable.

How is your tax reform proposal coming? Have you decided whether you support a VAT or flat tax yet?


74 posted on 03/31/2005 9:06:26 AM PST by phil_will1
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To: mysterio

"This will not ever happen. Too regressive for one. Number two, I think all of us know that people aren't just going to pay the tax and be happy. This will create the most intricate black market that the world has ever seen. The IRS will have to be expanded to include its own army to collect the tax. We will have basement shops, no knock searches, wire taps, and spies all over the internet trying to see who is cheating the tax. The drug war has taught us what kind of fun that will bring."

The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!!

Not only that, but it will cause the cancer rate to increase and teen age pregnancy to skyrocket.

Your imagination is working overtime, mysterio. Try to think outside the box just a little, will you?


75 posted on 03/31/2005 9:10:27 AM PST by phil_will1
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To: monkeyshine
Another rebate could be offered based on age.

A plausible idea, but just remember that we are having problems with social security now because it is based on age, and a lot more of us are about to enter that age.

A lot of the savings you are talking about are in retirement accounts which have never had income taxes paid on them.

76 posted on 03/31/2005 9:13:59 AM PST by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: RockinRight
But on the other hand, you can save faster for a house because you are now doing it with before tax dollars, and your earnings on your savings is not taxed. Also, with removal of embedded tax the cost of the new home will come down. Also, since the banks do not pay tax on the interest income they are earning the interest rates will be reduced.

For more information on this go to : http://www.fairtax.org/pdfs/Homebuilders%20will%20benefit%20from%20the%20FairTax.pdf

77 posted on 03/31/2005 9:19:05 AM PST by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: Doctor Stochastic

But these changes would be a lot more visible.


78 posted on 03/31/2005 9:19:46 AM PST by rwrcpa1 (April 15. Let's make it just another day.)
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To: rwrcpa1

That's great over time, but the initial shock to the system will be drastic. Sure, they could save more, but it would still take several years. That first few years would be hell for that industry.


79 posted on 03/31/2005 9:22:54 AM PST by RockinRight (Electing Hillary president would be akin to giving a drunken teenage boy keys to the Porsche)
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To: rwrcpa1

Yup.


80 posted on 03/31/2005 9:25:29 AM PST by RockinRight (Electing Hillary president would be akin to giving a drunken teenage boy keys to the Porsche)
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