Posted on 03/15/2005 2:58:17 AM PST by CarrotAndStick
Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on, off, or alter the "Gods, Graves, Glyphs" PING list --
Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
The GGG Digest -- Gods, Graves, Glyphs (alpha order)
You forgot Iberian (Spanish) Galatian (French to middle-east) and I can't recall the Russo-Celts, but them as well.
Many of the words are pronounced similarly. My book on Celts is currently at my girlfriends house so I don't have all the info on hand, but words for common things sound ALOT alike.
I'll get back to you on some examples if you remind me later this week. (tomorrow should be fine)
Celtic Ping List!
(Same stuff here as all the other ping lists)
Actually, remaining Celtic languages are divided into two categories, Gaelic and Brythonic. Irish, Max and Scots Gaelic are in the Gaelic category; Welsh, Cornish and the language spoken in Brittany are in the Brythonic. Gaelic is thought to be the more ancient of the two divisions.
The IE language, if it was a single language, is lost to history. It is a reconstructed language. Those linguists who are on the Internet have found the Internet to be a most powerful tool for linguistics research since graphics and sound files can be shared instantly and throughout the community. Progress is coming quickly. If Blam posts an image of an ancient starchart or inscription just discovered in China or Egypt, the whole linguistics industry has it immediately, so that if one scholar recognizes something, he can pass the knowledge on to everyone right away. So now the attention of all linguists on the Internet, which is nearly all linguists, have their attention drawn to Welsh-Hindi right now.
If after paying I walk out of a pub in Cardiff and say 'dyanevaadh' and they all know what I mean, I'll be quite interested!
If you read about any 'break-throughs', let us know.
Wouldn't be me. I never got past the first month of Linguistics 101. Terminal boredom, like in Econ 101. I read an article by an actual linguist that said the Internet is now and suddenly one of their most powerful tools. It is good that the Internet is getting some productive use.
I found your old thread on the genetic tests quite interesting. Male members of my mother's family have been participating in DNA testing to determine whether there is any relationship between two branches of a family here that bear the same name -- one family originally from Sweden and one family originally from Switzerland. Apparently there is no relationship -- both families happened to Anglicize their original name to the same name, which sounds English, if you don't know the story behind it.
But the DNA testing was very clear about the relationships, and it was amazing all the different nationalities that were included in the various subjects, even though the original Swedish genes (my family) were quite clear.
I am glad they got to Celtic, even if it is at the end. Celtic was the mother language of Latin, therefor that should make their digging a little easier >). I was surprised with the gals looks - send her to the US.
No, she does't look Indian, but why run her over?
She is not from the state of Assam, India.
I am told that Basque is unlike all other languages with a few possible connections to Japanese and that may be mere coincidence. Basque is thought to be the indiginous language of Europe going back to the neolithic.
Here you go.
The Relationship Between The Basque And Ainu
The Jomon - Ainu were the original Japanese.
This chart might help. According to it, Cornish, Breton and Welsh all derive from 'Brittonic', whereas Gaelic (Scottish, Irish, Manx) derives from Goidelic:
http://www.bartleby.com/61/indoeuro.html
Language origins are fascinating. I need to do more reading to catch up on recent ideas.
Maybe that chart I linked to in post 36 is a little out of date. It is a neat way to show the language explosion though, and the relationships between modern, ancient, and inferred languages.
I can't speak to the matter of accent but presumably if the dialects are similar the accents would be also. Berresford Ellis in his book "The Celts" points to a direct link between Vedic Sanskrit and Old Irish. He writes:
"When scholars seriously began to examine the Indo-European connections...they were amazed at how old Irish and Sanskrit had apparently maintained close links with their Indo-European parent. This applies not only in the field of linguistics but in law and social custom, in mythology, in folk custom and in traditional musical form."
To illustrate similarities in language of the Vedic Laws of Manu and that of Irish legal texts, the Laws of the Fenechus aka the Brehon Laws, he cites (the first in Sansrit, the second in Old Irish): arya (freeman), aire (noble); naib (good), noeib (holy); badhira (deaf), bodhar (deaf); minda (physical defect), menda (a stammerer); names (respect), nemed (respect/privilege); raja (king), ri (king); vid (knowledge), uid (knowledge), etc.
Here's a clue to the ancient location of the Indo-Europeans. Danu, sometimes anu in old Irish and Don in Welsh (also surviving with the Continental Celts) was the 'divine waters' which gushed to the earth in the time of primal chaos and nurtured Bile the sacred oak, from whom the gods and goddesses sprang. Her waters formed the course of the Danuvius (Danube). Of course there's the pesky problem of the River Don in Russa: which was named first? There's also a Don River in Scotland and probably elsewhere too, derived from the original root name.
Ping!
Wales, as usual, was busy having a really serious economic recession in that period. This resulted in far more than their fair share of young Welsh men and women departing for India to teach English.
The Scots were right behind them!
Educated, English speaking Indian people ever since have spoken with a brogue (for one thing), and I suspect the Welsh provided an "accent" useful in Hindi to indicate "far higher than you're ever gonna' believe social status".
It probably took less than half a century for the Welsh intonations to spread throughout the entire Hindi speaking population.
Note that this happened to the English language itself in the 15th and 16th Centuries. It's called "The Great Vowel Shift". Here a major language change started out with the budding capitalist class in London. You had to talk like them to demonstrate sufficient juju to be a player, FUR SHUR.
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