Posted on 02/25/2005 10:23:31 PM PST by neverdem
You should try attending an Eastern Catholic Church some time. Just awesome! Reverent liturgy and solid homiletics. They also serve refreshments after liturgy - no mad rush to the door - it's a time we all enjoy.
I'm Catholic in southern CA.
Are you near San Diego? There's a fabulous Maronite Catholic Church - St. Ephrem's. The Maronite liturgy is one of the oldest in the Catholic Church, dating back to when the Apostles brought it to Antioch. Portions of the liturgy are in Aramaic, using the language and words of our Lord at the Last Supper.
You can learn more about the "two lungs" of the Catholic Church at this link.
You can locate an Eastern Catholic Church in or near your community, at this link:
The Vatican has taken a strong stand - unfortunately the American Catholic Bishops/Cardinals have not decided to actively be engaged. American seminaries from the 60's through the 80's were 'breeding' grounds for active homosexuals.
In Boston, Cardinal O'Malley has concentrated on closing churches and schools to free up the money pay off victims and pay legal bills while ignoring the enablers and perpetrators. Numerous priests and Bishops who ACTIVELY supported and sent Pervert Priests to prey on children in parishes across the US and around the world still retain their positions. American Catholic press, Catholic publications, universities, and clergy actively support abortion, socialism, anti-Americanism, radical feminism (over 60 'Catholic' universities have put on the Vagina Monologues)....
There appear to be isolated pockets of resistance (as evidenced by the comments on this post)but very little support and leadership at the highest levels of the American Catholic Church.
I am complete agreement with you. Even for this Anglican, this has gone on long enough. What is worrisome is that by not having acted now, there may never come a time where it is seen as being the time to act.
Throw the pagans out into the outer darkness, authorize new Anglican provinces in North America, or somehow revert North America to mission territory, under the protection and guidance of Archbishop Akinola and those who similiarly try to follow Jesus Christ.
All they have to do is to declare new provinces in the US and Canada, and there will be churches clamoring to join.
But, I know, I know, Anglicans are more subtle than that.
Sadly, when I was sorting out the articles linked from the site in my tagline, I read this from a year and a half ago, the 4th oldest article linked (10/17/2003):
The emergency meeting of the primates of the Anglican Communion ended yesterday with the 37 national leaders of the Anglican churches still trying to prevent a schism in their ranks. They released a unanimous statement warning that their communion would be torn asunder by action of the Episcopal Church (USA)to consecrate the first openly homosexual bishop of the church. The release of the statement came after two days of meetings in London under the glare of press speculation and public attention. The stakes could not be higher.
Conservatives will be disappointed that the group did not take direct action to expel the Episcopal Church (USA) from the Anglican Communion. Experienced observers of the work and ways of the Anglicans will not be surprised. Established as a "middle way" between Catholicism and Protestantism, the Church of England and its daughter churches around the world have always been known for moderate action and considerable diversity. The expulsion of the Episcopal Church would have been unprecedented, but the primates' decision not to expel the church will likely lead to the very schism the leaders wanted to avoid.
Dear sionnsar,
"I am complete agreement with you. Even for this Anglican, this has gone on long enough. What is worrisome is that by not having acted now, there may never come a time where it is seen as being the time to act."
Yes. From my perspective, this was the time to act. I'm not sure that things will ever quite come to a head in the same way over this issue.
And I think that was the pagans' plan, to get past this Primates meeting, which they recognized as their maximize point of crisis.
sitetest
Name them! Which ones were "breeding grounds" for active homosexuals? Some, perhaps but definitely not all. It is the bishop who decides on the seminary. I know of several individuals who left the seminary they were assigned to during those years, because of the liberal teachings and open invitation to homosexuals. Others, however, chose to stay.
In Boston, Cardinal O'Malley has concentrated on closing churches and schools to free up the money pay off victims and pay legal bills while ignoring the enablers and perpetrators.
Yet one more fallacy! As a northeast resident, look around you and weigh the situation carefully. I can only cite an example here in the ultra-liberal diocese of Albany NY, to disprove your statement.
There are 7 Catholic Churches in the cities of Watervliet and Green Island, NY. These churches were constructed before the automobile, to accomodate the massive influx of European immigrants drawn to the manufacturing plants in this part of the state. Many of these churches have NO parking lots. Each one reflects the heritage of the immigrants who constructed it.
Several weeks ago, Bishop Hubbard announced that 6 of the 7 parishes will be closed, this year. You can imagine the reaction by these families. Yet, practically speaking, all of the families in the 7 parishes can be accomodated in one. Over the past several decades, the manufacturing plants that drew immigrants up here, have shut down, replaced with automation. The descendants of those who constructed these churches have long since moved away. The single remaining church will now change its name and absorb the Catholic congregations from the other parishes.
This is one of the rare occasions where I sympathize with these catholics and recognize the bishop's financial need to close these churches down.
The situation in the Boston Diocese is very similar. It is financially unfeasible to maintain churches where attendance is so low.
There appear to be isolated pockets of resistance (as evidenced by the comments on this post)but very little support and leadership at the highest levels of the American Catholic Church.
How much money would you spend to maintain a building where only a handful of people showed up each week? The major growth in the US Catholic Church is down south. As happened up north several centuries ago, catholics are now migrating and the roads they follow lead south, to the Bible Belt. It is there that you now find the Conservative minded Catholic Christians, constructing new churches and worshiping in droves.
Perhaps it is time for us to move as well ;-D
I am 1 mile south of the Ronald Reagan FWY(118). About 2 miles from the Simi Valley/Ventura County border. Interesting things happened last week in Simi. They had to shoot a 450 pound tiger that was roaming around Moorepark and Simi Valley that survived the latest monsoon. I want an autopsy result from that animal. Maybe PETA should get involved about a declining jack-rabbit population around the Reagan library:)
The Eastern Catholics are big on orthodoxy insofar as 'dressing appropriately' for Divine Liturgy and chanting their responses (yes - all of these liturgies are chanted back and forth between the Celebrant and the Congregation). You must promise me one thing! If you go, you will attend no less than 3 times. Okay? The first time, you will feel awkward as the surroundings will be most unfamiliar. The second time, you will begin to recognize the chants from the previous week and may even hum along. By the third week, if things work out for you as they did for me, the children will begin to wave at you and the parents will smile. Don't be surprised if members of the congregation offer to assist you in understanding their liturgy. It is all authentic and Cathollic. Rest assured that the pastor will want to meet and welcome you to his community.
Another freeper who normally attends a very orthodox NO liturgy, chose to attend a Byzantine Catholic liturgy while on business in a different state. He knew enough to remain after liturgy for the refreshments. Sure enough, the parish priest welcomed him to his church. When he learned that this was a business trip, he told the freeper that he should consider this his 'home parish', anytime he is visiting in that area.
The beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches is their strict adherence to authentic teaching and disdain for novelty. In the Maronite Catholic Church, communion is by intinction - the priest (and ONLY the priest - no EEMs), dips the consecrated host into the Precious Blood, places it on the tongue of the communicant with the words: 'Receive the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ, for the remission of sin and eternal salvation'. There are no liturgical dancers in the Eastern Rites, nor will there ever be. I pray you will discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Rest assured that there, you will encounter the 'Peace' of Christ.
There is a Syrian Orthodox Church near here that I visited.
Maybe it's just that we have different opinions. That should be ok, eh? in a discussion.
You're just all over the place, aren't you? Baptist, Pentecostal, Orthodox. Take another look at the link I gave you to the Eastern Catholic Churches. I'll grant you that this can be most confusing. Most American catholics associate the word 'catholic' with Roman Catholic. There are 22+ different Catholic liturgies and surely, in Southern California, there is an Eastern Catholic Church near you.
How far are you from San Diego?
As for the demands on a Catholic priest being greater than those placed on a protestant minister, I don't know about that. Except for the number of masses a priest gives maybe;otherwise, I would think that they have the same amount of work. My pastor visits the sick, shut-ins, those with problems, works with the youth, etc. He also has the business part of running the church to handle. He has two sermons per Sunday to preach. Then there are other classes he teaches. There are multiple other duties I don't even know about as well.
What should I do with you? I guess instructions will work. I happen to be watching "Patton" on AMC right now. I can instruct you to read maps, but can you actually read them?
I sincerely hope that you are not like so many of the Episcopalian brothers & sisters I left behind two years ago to "stand & fight." Not a single one stepped forward in January to stand for election to the Vestry - the one place where they are most likely to have a "voice" in the goings-on of the church. Not a single one even spoke up at the annual meeting to decry the heresies & abuses of church leadership at all levels. Not one volunteered to be a delegate to the Diocesan convention where they could cast a dissenting vote on establishing blessings for same-sex marriage or the ordination of homosexual priests. Sadly, their idea of "stand & fight" is to sit quietly in the pew each Sunday & designate their pledged giving not go to pay the Diocesan assessment. When "The Lesbian" shows up to celebrate mass, they excuse their absence from church by saying they didn't feel well, instead of speaking the truth & letting everyone know precisely where they stand on the issue of non-celibate homosexual clergy.
If one is going to "stand & fight," one must, first, make it abundantly clear to everyone just where they stand on the issues & then actually do something besides warm a pew. Anything less merely emboldens the heretics & apostates because they've seen with their own eyes that they do not have to fear opposition or correction as they continue to lead the church further & futher down the path to Hell.
One thing that socially rising and/or prominent folks don't like is controversy. That's why the liberal moles have been able to run rings around the pew-warmers.
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