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Rat Research Hints at God's Creation
OrthodoxNet.com ^ | 2/23/2005 | Chris Banescu

Posted on 02/24/2005 11:42:04 AM PST by ezfindit

Earlier this year, researchers in Spain made a remarkable scientific discovery. Rats are capable of discerning the rhythms of the human language and can tell the difference between different languages. According to the Reuters story, the "study suggests that animals, especially mammals, evolved some of the skills underlying the use and development of language long before language itself ever evolved." There is only a slight catch with the researchers' evolutionary explanation, it does not make any sense. Rather than support evolution, these findings actually reinforce the Creation model of the world. The research seems to indicate yet another weakness of the evolutionary model and adds more weight to a growing body of scientific evidence that disproves many aspects of evolution.

Neuroscientists at the University of Barcelona used Dutch and Japanese in conducting their studies on 64 male rats. They chose Dutch and Japanese because these languages are "very different from one another in use of words, rhythm and structure." According to the story the rats "were trained to respond to either Dutch or Japanese using food as a reward." The findings were indeed remarkable. "Rats rewarded for responding to Japanese did not respond to Dutch and rats trained to recognize Dutch did not respond the spoken Japanese. The rats could not tell apart Japanese or Dutch played backwards," according to the Reuters account.

Full article available at OrthodoxNet.com.

(Excerpt) Read more at orthodoxnet.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: animals; bible; christ; creation; creationist; dna; evidence; evolution; evolutionarytheory; genesis; god; proof; ratresearch; science; truth; wrongforum
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To: ezfindit
They chose Dutch and Japanese because these languages are "very different from one another in use of words, rhythm and structure."

This doesn't prove creation. It just shows that rats can distinguish different rhythms and structures. Anything with ears connected to a brain should be able to do this. My parrot can imitate me an my voice and my wife in her's and uses those words in context. Doesn't prove anything about creationism.

41 posted on 02/24/2005 12:47:55 PM PST by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: ezfindit; Fire_on_High
Rats are like small dogs. They will learn words and respond to them. Bean would come when he was called and get excited if you mentioned cheese. Swiss cheese was the preferred flavor. Rats are very intelligent.
42 posted on 02/24/2005 12:51:01 PM PST by farmfriend ( Congratulations. You are everything we've come to expect from years of government training.)
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To: ezfindit

Spanish scientists must not have much to do...


43 posted on 02/24/2005 12:51:38 PM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: ezfindit
In this study words were used as a discriminatory stimulus to gain food reward. Rats, among many, many other types of animals, have repeatedly demonstrated that learning to discriminate one stimulus from another is a relatively easy task. Rats can discriminate between a bell and a buzzer, or a flashing light from a steady, or from sweet substances and bitters ones.

Nothing in this study is new and nothing in this study speaks (save for the authors' discussion) to either evolution or creation. To take the position that this supports either evolution or creation is just sloppy sophistry.

44 posted on 02/24/2005 1:05:51 PM PST by Rudder
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To: xm177e2
I don't know if that's the value they get from it, but it certainly is a possible value.

That was my point. The rats can respond to human voices, but that doesn't mean they were either designed or evolved to respond to human voices. They were either designed or evolved to some other purpose - and one of the results is that they can respond this way to human voices. Any other conclusion, at this point, is going way beyond the data.

Shalom.

45 posted on 02/24/2005 1:06:13 PM PST by ArGee (Why do we let queers tell us what's normal?)
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To: Rudder

Bingo. Thank you for noticing that. It is the interpretation that varies, not the facts.

These threads on creation vs evolution can get pretty funny.


46 posted on 02/24/2005 1:16:30 PM PST by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: Zeroisanumber; farmfriend

I own pet rats and yes, they do communicate with various sounds. The loud squeaking you hear in movies is usually a reaction to pain or fear, and if there's anything to it, often progresses to outright squalling that sounds like a crying puppy. They make soft chittering noises like a guinea pig when they're happy, or at the extreme end of happiness, the "rat purr"...hard to describe but easy to recognize when you hear it since it really does sound a bit like a cat's purring. They also have various snorts and huffing noises to indicate displeasure but without anything worse...an example being if they can smell food they want and aren't getting any. It's more mild frustation/attention getting than a true warning or aggression. A truly pissed off rat will lay back its ears and hiss like a cat, or huff very loudly and angrily...it's easy to tell from the "hey, feed me dummy!" noises.

I assume the noises are mostly between rats, other than the pained squeaking/squalling and the hissing, presumably hoping to warn off a threat. I've managed to get the happy noises when petting them and giving them attention, but they also made them when grooming each other. They tended to use a lot of the lesser irritated noises when squabbling over food or minor things like waking each other up...yes, they'd scold furiously over that...but I only heard the more aggressive sounds a few times. Twice with my older female when there were ppl around who shouldn't be (she was very smart and protective), a couple times with the next oldest female when she percieved something we did as threatening her litter, and once in a fight between the 3 young males.

Rats are a lot smarter than most ppl give them credit for. They're very perceptive and if they aren't ruined by bad handling or breeding, become very attached and loyal, not just to their one owner but to the family that owns them. Everyone in my family, including my 89 year old grandmother, can handle the rats and the rats respond with trust and love. They seem to have a very good sense for who genuinely likes them. One of my friends drives up from Atlanta about twice a year and every rat I've ever owned fawned on her just as happily as on us, and she adores them just as much. For an animal with a life span of 2 years and change, that's a long memory, or just plain a trusting, sweet nature,


47 posted on 02/24/2005 1:31:21 PM PST by Fire_on_High (I am so proud of what we were...)
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To: Wicket
Bingo. Thank you for noticing that. It is the interpretation that varies, not the facts.

Facts...My old professor told me when I about to graduate and embark on a scientific career, "Facts are very rare...if you discover just one in your whole career of science, consider yourself very lucky."

Crevo threads are another universe unto themselves (I'm an 'evo.') and "either way, it's amighty sobering thought" (Pogo)

48 posted on 02/24/2005 5:38:32 PM PST by Rudder
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To: Fire_on_High

"can handle the rats and the rats respond with trust and love. "

Well, that proves it. God is love and the rats were created specially by him.

If God is love and love is blind, is Ray Charles God?


49 posted on 02/24/2005 7:12:46 PM PST by shubi (Peace through superior firepower.)
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Comment #50 Removed by Moderator

To: ezfindit

SPOTREP - ID


51 posted on 02/24/2005 10:14:25 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: Rudder

W'all, I'm one of them there college eddicated folks that find a created universe easier to believe than big bang plus billions of years through amoeba results in Albert Einstein (who apparently believed in intelligent design). I was, as you were, taught evolution as truth. I later found that it wasn't quite so simple.

Belief in evolution is a bias that filters informaion, as is belief in a created universe. Discussions by scientists of the holes in evolutionary theory, and the outright frauds (probably from both sides), can be quite interesting.

Francis Crick, co-discoverer of the structure of DNA, apparently once wrote that biologists must constantly remind themselves that what they see was not designed but evolved. I find that troubling, don't you?

Pascal, Boyle, Newton and others that made outstanding scientific contributions believed that the universe was designed by God and therefore had predictable qualities that could be studied and discovered.

It's an uncomfortable thought for some, but where there's a watch, there's always a watchmaker.

And facts can certainly be a slippery thing. If you're old enough, you may have gone through the global cooling - we're going to die in another ice age theory. Now it's global warming. Makes a person's head spin, let me tell you.

Anyway, thee and me are not going to solve this. I do wish you well, and hope you will investigate the other side of this issue.

Blessings,


52 posted on 02/25/2005 10:40:19 AM PST by Wicket (God bless and protect our troops and God bless America)
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To: ezfindit
This scientific research really points to some great information that God's account of Creation in the Bible is correct and true.

Actually, it ignores science and comes around to the religious conclusion that "God did it".

53 posted on 02/25/2005 10:41:56 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: xm177e2; Strategerist

Several things here

(aside from the fact that this is an old thread)

1: You aren't God, so where do you get off supposing how He would make things?

2: Man was given domain over all things on this planet. It stands to reason that this means that all animals recognize us as their immediate masters. And what servant doesn't know the voice of his master?

3: Just because you haven't heard a response about your suppositions, doesn't mean noone is talking. It may mean you aren't asking the right people.

4: According to evolution, such a "useless" mechanism in rats (been around for eons before language) should be gone by now.


54 posted on 04/05/2005 7:41:01 PM PDT by MacDorcha ("Do you want the e-mail copy or the fax?" "Just the fax, ma'am.")
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To: MacDorcha

EXCELLENT POINTS! I especially loved #4. Evolution as preached (more like dogma than any Creationist view) should have eliminated the rat's ability to discern human speech millions of years ago. Why is it still around?


55 posted on 04/18/2005 9:30:53 AM PDT by orthodox4GOP
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To: orthodox4GOP

::bows:: thank you. It's woth noting that they have not responded yet. A qualm they stated they had with creationists.


56 posted on 04/18/2005 4:45:23 PM PDT by MacDorcha (Where Rush dares not tread, there are the Freepers!)
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To: ezfindit

"Are you pondering what I'm pondering, Pinky?"
"Duhh, I think so, Brain...but if evolution is a valid theory, how do you explain James Carville?...NARF!!!"


57 posted on 04/18/2005 4:51:18 PM PDT by RichInOC (Karol Jozef Wojtyla, May 18, 1920-April 2, 2005, R.I.P.)
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Comment #58 Removed by Moderator

To: Javelina

Thanks for the ping! Great article!


59 posted on 04/26/2005 7:29:01 AM PDT by ezfindit (OrthodoxNet.com - Shining the Light of Wisdom and Truth)
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