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Children 'harmed' by vegan diets
The Beeb ^
| 21 February, 2005
| Michelle Roberts
Posted on 02/21/2005 2:06:27 PM PST by Constitutionalist Conservative
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I am saying that we are now omnivores. The only reason that we don't have a pavlovian reflex to raw meat is that it has been bred out of us (we have "outgrown" it).
The concept seems pretty simple to me.
201
posted on
02/22/2005 3:23:12 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: TomB
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. I am saying that we are now omnivores. The only reason that we don't have a pavlovian reflex to raw meat is that it has been bred out of us (we have "outgrown" it).Why did you post a link to the article that discussed how we started eating meat and how our dentition evolved to adapt to the changing environment?
What does that article have to do with pavlovian reflexes and the craving of raw meat?
If the article has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make, then why did you post a link to it?
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
I think you proved my point when I said:
But this is a bit of an explanation, althought I'm sure it won't suffice
If the article has nothing to do with the point you were trying to make, then why did you post a link to it?
The fact of the matter is that we developed over thousands of years AWAY from eating raw meat and TOWARD eating cooked meat. The article proves that fact.
I find it ironic you can make up a statement out of thin air but I am the one who has to conclusively prove mine.
There is NO REASON for someone to have a pavlovian reflex to a situation they haven't been exposed to in thousands of years.
Now, do you still want to say that the fact that we don't salivate over raw meat is proof that we aren't carnivores???
203
posted on
02/22/2005 4:16:01 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: mhking
Thanks as always for the ping. I'd probably say, if God hadn't meant for us to eat meat, they wouldn't be in the food chain, lol.
204
posted on
02/22/2005 4:28:36 PM PST
by
JLO
(Minnesota Nice)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Which is to say, that we originally weren't designed as carnivores, but herbivores.Even though I am not a young-earth creationist, I do find it interesting that this is consistent with the Biblical evolution of our diet.
Back to science, though: even if what you say is true, it is not in itself an argument to return to vegetarianism, because our bodies have now adapted to meat eating. The question remains: has it adapted to tolerate meat eating, or to prefer it.
205
posted on
02/22/2005 4:28:46 PM PST
by
mcg1969
To: mcg1969
Back to science, though: even if what you say is true, it is not in itself an argument to return to vegetarianism, because our bodies have now adapted to meat eating. The question remains: has it adapted to tolerate meat eating, or to prefer it. That was the point of the link I posted, alas it seemed to soar right over Ol' Dan's head. Over the millenia humans have developed the need to not only eat meat, but cooked meat, which is why the carniverous side of our dentition is much more sedate than, say, a dog's. In addition, this switch from herbivore to omnivore happened probabaly before we became our current version of homo sapiens. And that would be well over 200,000 years ago. (but don't hold me to that)
206
posted on
02/22/2005 4:38:15 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Ooops. Forgot to ping you to 206.
207
posted on
02/22/2005 4:39:38 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: TomB
The fact of the matter is that we developed over thousands of years AWAY from eating raw meat and TOWARD eating cooked meat. The article proves that fact.That is but one point raised in the article. You may have read the article, but it's clear you didn't assimilate it's entire contents. In your zest to prove me wrong, you overlook key points in the article which support what I say.
I quote (from paragraph 1, no less):
Meat-eating has impacted the evolution of the human body, scientists reported today at the American Association for the Advancement of Science's annual meeting in Washington, D.C.
-- And --
When humans switched to meat-eating, they triggered a genetic change that enabled better processing of fats, said Stanford, who has worked extensively with gerontologist Caleb Finch of USC.
The article is perfectly clear to anyone with half a brain. Man did not originally eat meat. After he started, his body adapted to the changing conditions.
Sheesh!
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
And here is my original statement:
The presence of "meat chewing" teeth is a physiological aspect of our anatomy while the pavlovian reflex is a conditioned response. One that has been bred out of us over the millenia.
Is there something in that statement that isn't true?
It seems to me that the article proves it rather well.
209
posted on
02/22/2005 5:21:03 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Man did not originally eat meat. BTW, men also originally didn't walk on 2 feet, are you advocating we go back to quadripedal motion?
210
posted on
02/22/2005 5:22:50 PM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: Constitutionalist Conservative
But I see a chicken or the egg question. Does a vegan diet hinder children's growth? Or is it the nuttiness of the (vegan) parents?
Not to generalize -- but I can't help wondering. Would the kind of people who gravitate to a vegan diet have neurological problems to begin with, which they pass on their kids (genetically)?
I know vegetarianism is practiced in certain societies (Indian, Buddhist). I notice, though, that these people are off slighter build than Africans or Europeans. (Are these people really vegans? Maybe they do eat eggs & dairy.) It sounds like the vegan/vegetarian diet might be all right for some people but not all right for others.
Me? I just finished eating a roast beef dinner. Yum.
211
posted on
02/22/2005 5:40:08 PM PST
by
MoochPooch
(A righteous person worries about his or her behavior, an extremist about everyone else's.)
To: cyborg
212
posted on
02/22/2005 5:51:24 PM PST
by
SquirrelKing
(I see you're drinking one percent. Is that because you think you're fat?)
To: CARDINALRULES
I've had cats get a rabbit, a snake, and of course lizards. And one great hunter who'd bring me the snouts or tails of 2-3 large rats a day.
To: Constitutionalist Conservative; TomB
Animal source foods have some nutrients not found anywhere else, she told a Washington science conference.
The Vegan Society dismissed the claims, saying its research showed vegans were often healthier than meat eaters.
However, the claims have been dismissed by the Vegan Society in the UK.
In a statement, it said increasing numbers of people were opting for a plant-based diet.
Kostana Azmi, the chief executive officer, said: "The vegan diet can provide you with more energy, nutrition, and is bursting with goodness."
Bursting with goodness. Gimme an effing break. Nutrients feed us, not goodness. And the poor fool, apposing energy with "nutrition." Except for the micronutrient aspect of food, most easily (and tastily) satisfied by eating the flesh of animals, daily energy requirements are what food is all about. And notice how often these folks use words like "often" and "can".
I suppose we shouldn't be too surprised that spokesmen, or spokesbeings, for veganism, if they're being true to their religious calling, cannot be expected to engage in a reasoned argument because they've more likely than not undermined brain function by malnutrition. And what little they have left has been nullified by cant.
The vegans I've known here at the University of Chicago have been pale, wan, listless things, usually female.
214
posted on
02/23/2005 4:00:41 AM PST
by
aruanan
To: aruanan
The vegans I've known here at the University of Chicago have been pale, wan, listless things, usually female. And my vegan sister is a board certified doctor and her vegan husband started a company that creates managed health care organizations. Neither of them is pale, wan or listless and my brother-in-law is definitely not female.
To: JoethePirate
And my vegan sister is a board certified doctor and her vegan husband started a company that creates managed health care organizations. Neither of them is pale, wan or listless and my brother-in-law is definitely not female.
And people have written novels without using the letter 'e'. Note what I wrote, what you wrote, and then tell me how you drew the wrong conclusion.
216
posted on
02/23/2005 5:29:16 AM PST
by
aruanan
To: aruanan
Note what I wrote, what you wrote, and then tell me how you drew the wrong conclusion. If you can't make the obvious connection between what you asserted about vegans and my evidence to the contrary...
To: aruanan
Must be a quart low on "goodness".
218
posted on
02/23/2005 5:53:01 AM PST
by
TomB
("The terrorist wraps himself in the world's grievances to cloak his true motives." - S. Rushdie)
To: JoethePirate; TomB
If you can't make the obvious connection between what you asserted about vegans and my evidence to the contrary...
I did make the obvious connection. You apparently still haven't picked up on how what you think I said doesn't match what I actually said. And, just to put things into perspective, I am an expert in nutrition. I've seen the amount of nutrition coursework that med students are required to take, having helped in them as a teaching assistant--and this was in one of the few medical schools that require a formal course on the subject of human nutrition. Most of the med students had no time for it.
219
posted on
02/23/2005 11:25:26 AM PST
by
aruanan
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