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To: betty boop
i think if you were to do this experiment, you might find that you have a valid, actual basis for suspecting that the brain is, in all probability, not the party "responsible" for this process; though it is clear it has a facilitating role to play.

You may not believe this, but I do this very frequently. You may believe it even less when I tell you that I came to a conclusion that may well be the opposite of yours. Often I ask myself, "how did I come to do that in this specific way", or, "how did my train of thought reach this particular point?" More often than not, I come to the conclusion that I could hardly have done otherwise!

Here's a case in point. Last year I was reading Erasmus's discourse on Free Will, and I challenged myself to demonstrate that I truly had Free Will. My demonstration (unwitnessed) was to take off my shoe and put it on my head. I then deconstructed the action: why did I do that?

Well, the action had to be unusual. I could have raised my hand, or whistled a tune, or removed my glasses, but these are things I might have some other, less volitional motivation for doing. The action had to be something dramatic, so that I would remember it. It preferentially would involve some item close at hand (my will is ostensibly free, but it is above all lazy). What items are closer at hand than my clothing? I could have removed my shirt, but that would have been more difficult and less comfortable. (Never mind the pants.) So a shoe was certainly the most obvious candidate. But removing a shoe, while a volitional act, is something I might have done anyway; some odd gesture is required. What unusual, arresting thing can I do with a shoe? Several things, sure, but placing it on my head was easy and immediate.

So, all things considered, my demonstration fell flat. My path to a proof of Free Will was strictly a path of least resistance, obvious in retrospect at every step. Do I have Free Will? I sincerely believe that I do...but in all honesty, at that particular moment, I as sincerely believe that I did not obviously employ it.

555 posted on 02/15/2005 6:03:52 PM PST by Physicist
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To: Physicist
My path to a proof of Free Will was strictly a path of least resistance, obvious in retrospect at every step.

One can imagine a more dramatic locus for the shoe, but would that be any more persuasive?

556 posted on 02/15/2005 6:22:54 PM PST by PatrickHenry (<-- Click on my name. The List-O-Links for evolution threads is at my freeper homepage.)
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To: Physicist
...my will is ostensibly free, but it is above all lazy....

Well, maybe that's precisely the problem, Physicist. On the other hand, having a highly active will might not get you a better result. I guess the point is that we need to know what is the sound basis for the exercise of will that won't (a) kill ourself and (b) won't kill anybody else. In due course. And just as trees bear fruit, causes have results. And it seems to me that mankind is steadily busy in the "causation business" these days (as usual), with effects that spread, not only to society, but also to the biosphere and presumably beyond.

The minute you say "I could have hardly done otherwise!," you have sold your freedom in principle. A human being cannot continue to be human if he does that.

I'm sorry, these remarks are probably taken as offensive, though I didn't intend that at all. I'm frankly tired, and need to get some sleep. Maybe I'll have a better idea in the morning.

I do wish you a good night, Physicist; and a better tomorrow. May God bless you.

564 posted on 02/15/2005 7:24:24 PM PST by betty boop
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