Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Behe Jumps the Shark [response to Michael Behe's NYTimes op-ed, "Design for Living"]
Butterflies and Wheels (reprinted from pharyngula.org) ^ | February 7, 2005 | P. Z. Myers

Posted on 02/12/2005 4:24:09 PM PST by snarks_when_bored

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 881-899 next last
To: Ichneumon

Appreciate it.


241 posted on 02/13/2005 8:10:19 PM PST by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 231 | View Replies]

To: furball4paws
I do not think the government has any right regulating markets - we disagree.

I would suspect that most freepers as well as the founder would disagree with you, as would the vast majority of registered Republicans and people in the conservative movement. Exteremist libertarians who want to eliminate all government regulation are a tiny minority, even on the right.

That being said, most freepers, Republicans, and conservatives (along with me) would agree that the amount of regulation ought to be a lot smaller than it is now.

From an evolutionary perspective, you'd also be wise to consider why no society has ever evolved where the level of government regualtion was zero.

242 posted on 02/13/2005 8:14:06 PM PST by curiosity
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 234 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07
Loosen up a little Joe. Yes, they can speak for themselves and they have, that is what I already said. That word bigot and bigotted gets tossed about these days. You bigot. He's a bigot. They are bigots. She's a bigot. They are all bigots. Those bigots. That is bigotted.
It gets old.
243 posted on 02/13/2005 8:17:52 PM PST by Step_Into_the_Void (Fiscal conservative - don't take my money - you didn't work for it - I did.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 240 | View Replies]

To: Step_Into_the_Void

:-}. You've got the victim thing down pretty good. Congrats.


244 posted on 02/13/2005 8:21:07 PM PST by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 243 | View Replies]

To: gobucks
Folks who never attend church ... why they voted overwhelmingly for Kerry.

Not overwhelmingly, no. The majority of them voted for Kerry.

I know a lot of people who won't vote for Bush, not because they're not fundamentally conservative, but because they're put off by the bogus religiosity of so many people who claim they're conservatives. You know, gobucks, people who go to Church every Sunday, and lie cheat and steal the other six days of the week? The phrase 'whited sephulcres' comes to mind.

Let's see; we have a theory of origins based on a couple who had three sons, one of which killed his brother, and they populated the earth despite the absence of any other women except their mother, with a bloodline incorporating various other incestuous relationships and internecine homicides; and you're complaining evolution is amoral?

245 posted on 02/13/2005 8:33:58 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (Evolve or die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 190 | View Replies]

To: longshadow; Joe Bonforte

That was one marvelous post, and was well worth repeating.


246 posted on 02/13/2005 8:44:00 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (Evolve or die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: PatrickHenry
LOLOLOL! Thanks, PatrickHenry! Hugs!
247 posted on 02/13/2005 8:46:58 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 144 | View Replies]

To: WildTurkey; betty boop; All
I gave up on those two after they their philosophy statements on massless matter ... Total waste of time trying to follow their rantings.

Er, the statements were mostly all physics...

For any Lurkers interested in a definition of "matter": post 2039 of the hysterical thread

248 posted on 02/13/2005 8:54:09 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 145 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon
This was published in APRIL *2003* -- what excuse to Minnich et al have for not being aware of it while preparing a paper in LATE 2004?

Well, it ain't my field, but I wasn't aware of it. Of course, I should have been. Thanks for the pointer.

Well, gawsh, I guess that means at least one part of the flagellar system has an evolutionary precursor. So much for irreducibility.

The mousetrap is gone, the flagellum is gone, the blood clotting system is gone, has Behe got anything left?

249 posted on 02/13/2005 8:59:14 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (Evolve or die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 199 | View Replies]

To: furball4paws
LOLOLOL! You are always nice to me and I greatly appreciate it!

Indeed, I tend to use a lot of techno-jargon in my posts to discuss things which aren't all that complex but the lingo makes it sound that way. And yes, I do love to discuss the mathematics of complexity, information, randomness and especially geometric physics - all of which are relevant to evolution theory.

I will try harder to be communicative.

250 posted on 02/13/2005 9:04:18 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Ichneumon; jwalsh07; jennyp; furball4paws; longshadow; PatrickHenry
ID doesn't exclude evolution any more than American capitalism excludes markets. ID proponents might even say that like American capitalism, regulation is required to keep unfettered capitalism on the straight and narrow.

My point has nothing to with with the historical fact of evolution. I was speaking to the mechanism of natural selection, which is isomorphic to Adam Smith's Invisible Hand.

I find it amusing that conservatives believe the marketplace is better than economic planning at producing wealth, but can't see the same process at work in biology. Ethics and morality may require us to provide safety nets for the unfortunate, but the wealth that pays for the safety net is created by stochastic processes for generating product variation, and the unregulated and unpredictable choices of the marketplace for selecting the survivors.

It makes no difference that businesses are run "intelligently" or products are "designed." Their survival is determined by the market, not by the intelligence behind their design. Planned economies always underperform Darwinian economies.

251 posted on 02/13/2005 9:05:28 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 219 | View Replies]

To: snarks_when_bored
Morris agrees; he doesn't seem to like capitalism much.
252 posted on 02/13/2005 9:06:45 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 236 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic

Actually that should be Bergman, not Morris.


253 posted on 02/13/2005 9:08:05 PM PST by Doctor Stochastic (Vegetabilisch = chaotisch is der Charakter der Modernen. - Friedrich Schlegel)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 252 | View Replies]

To: js1138
It makes no difference that businesses are run "intelligently" or products are "designed."

I don't know for sure but judging by this statement I would say that you've never run a business.

254 posted on 02/13/2005 9:11:58 PM PST by jwalsh07
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 251 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic
Well, so far we have evolution responsible for Marxism, fascism, laissez-faire capitalism, abortion, euthanasia, and fluoridation.

Any takers for the designated-hitter rule?

255 posted on 02/13/2005 9:16:49 PM PST by Right Wing Professor (Evolve or die!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 252 | View Replies]

To: longshadow
...but their intelligence is only applied to the limited part that they play in the overall system. The system is self-organizing.

This is one of the things that creationists and IDers simply cannot see. "Matter" takes on entirely new characteristics at higher levels of organisation, and must be analyzed at these higher levels.

Evolutionists are accused of reductionism, but it is the creationists that incompetenty attempt to reduce biology to physics. The laws of physics are not broken by living things, but the laws of physics are not adequate or appropriate for the analysis of evolution.

256 posted on 02/13/2005 9:20:43 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 202 | View Replies]

To: ValenB4
I like this evolution equals capitalism angle.

I's not new. I've been bringing it up recently, but I've been here long enough to know what's coming up next. The creationists will soon bring up social darwinism and eugenics, genuine evils.

I am comparing darwinism and the marketplace, not to make a moral point, but to demonstrate that natural selection combined with stochastic variation can produce new, emergent things.

From a moral and ethical point of view, we need to be aware that "progress" is not implied by the process.

257 posted on 02/13/2005 9:33:15 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 233 | View Replies]

To: jwalsh07

Most businesses fail. Even successful businesses eventually stagnate and undergo restructuring. The corporate name may survive, but the management, and often the ownership changes. From a purely objective point of view you cannot anticipate all market changes.

The ability of the marketplace to force corporate restructuring is one of several reasons capitalism is more efficient than socialism.


258 posted on 02/13/2005 9:38:38 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 254 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic

You beat them to it.


259 posted on 02/13/2005 9:40:03 PM PST by js1138
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 252 | View Replies]

To: Doctor Stochastic

Curiously, the robber-baron form of capitalism produced some of the great fortunes that have persisted, and even grown, throughout the 20th century and into the 21st. And even after the heyday of robber-baronism (as it were), Joseph Kennedy and his ilk still knew how to grift with the best of the old-timers, and the Kennedy's, now "old money", continue to live high on the descendant fruits of ill-gotten gains.


260 posted on 02/13/2005 9:44:15 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 253 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 221-240241-260261-280 ... 881-899 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson