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Finding common ground between God and evolution ("Theory is greater than facts)
Seattle Times ^ | Jan 25, 2005 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 01/25/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by gobucks

Ken Miller is an interesting guy. He is co-author of the nation's best-selling biology textbook. It was on his book, "Biology," that schools in Cobb County, Ga., slapped a sticker casting doubt on its discussion of evolution theory. And it was this sticker that a federal judge recently ordered removed because it endorsed religion. Miller, who testified against the label, gets a lot of hate mail these days.

But Miller is also a practicing Roman Catholic. "I attend Mass every Sunday morning," he said, "and I'm tired of being called an atheist."

A professor of biology at Brown University, Miller does not believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution contradicts the creation passages in the Bible. And he will argue the point till dawn.

"None of the six creative verses (in Genesis) describe an out-of-nothing, puff-of-smoke creation," he says. "All of them amount to a command by the creator for the earth, the soil and the water of this planet to bring forth life. And that's exactly what natural history tells us happened." (Miller has written a book on the subject: "Finding Darwin's God: A Scientist's Search for Common Ground Between God and Evolution.")

Still, today's emotional conflicts over teaching this science in public schools leave the impression that Christianity and evolution cannot be reconciled. This is not so.

In 1996, Pope John II wrote a strong letter to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences supporting the scientific understanding of evolution. That's one reason why students in Catholic parochial schools get a more clearheaded education in evolution science than do children at many public schools racked by the evolution debate.

American parents who want Darwin's name erased from the textbooks might be surprised at the father of evolution's burial spot. Darwin was laid to rest in Westminster Abbey, an Anglican church and England's national shrine.

Not every illustrious Englishman gains admission to an abbey burial site. Darwin died in 1882. Two years before, friends of George Eliot wanted the famous (female) writer laid to rest at the abbey. Eliot had lived immorally, according to the church fathers, and was denied a place. (She is buried at London's Highgate Cemetery, not far from Karl Marx.)

But Darwin had been an upright man. The clergy were proud both of Darwin's accomplishments and of their own comfort with modern science.

In 1882, during the memorial service for the great evolutionist, one church leader after the other rose to praise Charles Darwin. Canon Alfred Barry, for one, had recently delivered a sermon declaring that Darwin's theory was "by no means alien to the Christian religion."

Nowadays, Catholics and old-line Protestants have largely made peace with evolution theory. Most objections come from evangelicals — and not all of them.

Francis S. Collins is head of the National Genome Project and a born-again Christian. He belongs to the American Scientific Affiliation — a self-described fellowship of scientists "who share a common fidelity to the word of God and a commitment to integrity in the practice of science." Its Web address is www.asa3.org.

But back in Cobb County, the debate rages. The sticker taken off Miller's textbook read: "This textbook contains material on evolution. Evolution is a theory, not a fact, regarding the origin of living things. This material should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

Why should Miller care that the Cobb County School Board — having bought his book in great quantity — pastes those words on the cover?

First off, he says, "It implies that facts are things we are certain of and theories are things that are shaky." In science, theory is a higher level of understanding than facts, he notes. "Theories don't grow up to become facts. Rather, theories explain facts."

Then, he questions why, of all the material in his book, only evolution is singled out for special consideration. Miller says that if he could write the sticker, it would say, "Everything in this book should be approached with an open mind, studied carefully and critically considered."

Clearly, many religious people regard evolution theory with sincere and heartfelt concern. But theirs is not a mainstream view — even among practicing Christians. Most theologians these days will argue that the biology book and the Good Book are reading from the same page.

Providence Journal columnist Froma Harrop's column appears regularly on editorial pages of The Times. Her e-mail address is fharrop@projo.com


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: commonground; creation; creationism; crevolist; darwin; evolution
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To: ohioWfan
Forgive me for not calling you an old man then.

No. You should ask forgiveness for making the condenscending remark, not for being mistaken.

481 posted on 01/27/2005 11:03:16 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: ohioWfan
Well, then. You just clarified that I am not, by your definition a 'fanatical Christian.'

If you say that you have a problem with reading comprehension. Something you have shown multiple times on this thread.

482 posted on 01/27/2005 11:04:35 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
Ummmmm........no. Nowhere did I say that I could interpret Scripture perfectly. In fact, that is diametrically opposed to the truth.

This has become nothing but a circular argument, Turkey. We have both said previously that we were wasting each other's time, and we have said all that we wanted to say (more than once, now), so let's call it off, OK?

483 posted on 01/27/2005 11:05:11 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: WildTurkey
"Of course. But it is impossible to reason with some fanatics. That is life.

LOL OK then we are on the same page :-)

484 posted on 01/27/2005 11:05:30 AM PST by Kelly_2000
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To: Kelly_2000

Don't forget that it is equally impossible to reason with science fanatics.


485 posted on 01/27/2005 11:09:29 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: ohioWfan
This has become nothing but a circular argument, Turkey. We have both said previously that we were wasting each other's time, and we have said all that we wanted to say (more than once, now), so let's call it off, OK?

I didn't say you were wasting my time; I said you weren't worth my time but the principle was. You FReepmailed my this morning to say you had called it off and I found that you had gone back over a lot of my old posts only to make a several MORE posts to me. Go figure.

486 posted on 01/27/2005 11:09:31 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: ohioWfan
Don't forget that it is equally impossible to reason with science fanatics.

Thank goodness there have not been any of those here! You would really have had a lot of "work" to do.

487 posted on 01/27/2005 11:10:46 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: WildTurkey
A good Christian would have pointed it out for me.

Please forgive me. :-)

488 posted on 01/27/2005 11:11:08 AM PST by bondserv (Sincerity with God is the most powerful instigator for change! † [Check out my profile page])
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To: WildTurkey

Just being polite, Turkey. You posted to me 5 or 6 times, so I chose not to ignore you. Sorry. My bad.


489 posted on 01/27/2005 11:11:35 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: WildTurkey
"Remember, there was no "birth" before."

God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiple prior to the fall.

JM
490 posted on 01/27/2005 11:17:05 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: ohioWfan
He is not a Christian nor does he believe the Bible so this whole exercise has been a collosal waste of breath.

JM
491 posted on 01/27/2005 11:18:18 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: JohnnyM
Yes........a waste of time where he is concerned, but not for the lurkers.......or for me.

I very much appreciate the facts you have brought to this discussion, and the series of Biblical truths you listed, none of which he believes, all the while claiming to be a Christian.

It is never a waste of breath to cite the Word of God. Never. So THANK you!

492 posted on 01/27/2005 11:22:43 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: ohioWfan
Just being polite, Turkey. You posted to me 5 or 6 times, so I chose not to ignore you. Sorry. My bad.

I understand. Call for a truce then go back over all the old posts just to make sure you can "set the record straight" by getting in a few hits "after the bell rings".

493 posted on 01/27/2005 11:23:10 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: JohnnyM
God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiple prior to the fall.

I must have missed the part about the sons and daughters prior to Cain ... What were their names?

494 posted on 01/27/2005 11:32:46 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: ohioWfan

Are you one of the "predestined"?


495 posted on 01/27/2005 11:34:11 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: narby
Science says that 5 loaves and 2 fish cannot feed 5000 people.

Science says that 3 men thrown into a furnace should not survive. In fact their clothes were not even burned.

Science says that a man who was dead and buried cannot come back to life.

Science says that a man blind from birth is not able to regain sight at the touch of a hand.

Science says a man cannot walk on water.

Science says a virgin is not able to conceive and give birth.

Science says that the Red Sea cannot be parted and have the ground be dry.

Science says that manna cannot fall from heaven.

Science says that water cannot flow from a rock.

Science says that a pillar of fire cannot be a consistent guide for 40 years.

Science says that the walls of Jericho cannot fall after blowing some trumpets and walking around them.

Science says that a shadow cannot go back ten steps (meaning the earth rotated backwards).

According to you, none of these things could have happened because it goes against science, yet they all did.

JM
496 posted on 01/27/2005 12:03:42 PM PST by JohnnyM
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To: phoenix0468; gobucks
I think the poster is more freaked out at the arrogance of a scientist saying that evolution is "more than fact", which is a huge load of crap.

Please point out the part of the article where you hallucinated such a statement, and then I'll show you how you're mistaken.

497 posted on 01/27/2005 12:10:32 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: phoenix0468
No, I understood quite well. He said evolution explains facts.

Correct, it does.

This is crap.

I know I'll be sorry I asked, but -- in what way?

Evolution is a theory that is based on evidence and not a fact at all.

The theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution. Read this if you're still unclear.

498 posted on 01/27/2005 12:12:27 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: gobucks
Thank you. I have been reading several threads these past few weeks where many many freepers basically say "evolution is "more than fact" - but you don't see them add your thoughtful rejoinder.

Really? Then feel free to provide even a single example.

It has been quite illuminating....

It has, but probably not in the way you intended.

499 posted on 01/27/2005 12:13:30 PM PST by Ichneumon
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To: phoenix0468
Before the scientific method most science was bunk; based on conjecture, coincidence, and papal decrees. And what do you know, this article pretty much covers the gamut with evolution.

Feel free to support your opinion, if you think you can.

500 posted on 01/27/2005 12:14:23 PM PST by Ichneumon
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