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Finding common ground between God and evolution ("Theory is greater than facts)
Seattle Times ^ | Jan 25, 2005 | Froma Harrop

Posted on 01/25/2005 6:15:41 PM PST by gobucks

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To: jwalsh07

Because bioenginnering is the essence of ID.

No it's not. The essence of ID is that an 'Intelligent Designer' (=God) best explains the diversity of life, not evolution. ID opposes the evolution.

221 posted on 01/26/2005 9:54:53 AM PST by ml1954
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To: Modernman
ID doesn't belong in science class because it is not science. It is philosophy.

Is genetically modified wheat a subject for science class or philosophy class?

222 posted on 01/26/2005 9:56:08 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
Now tell me why scientists get their panties bunched up when a school board says that the ToE is a theory, not a fact.

Because when you single something out like that, it undermines its legitimacy in people's minds, and that's the ONLY goal, here. If the government mandated that bananas be labelled with radiation symbols, what do you think would be the effect on sales, and how would the purveyors of bananas react? And yet, the labels would be accurate: bananas are radioactive, and measurably so.

They would seem to be in harmony with your hierarchy.

They would, if the schools did an adequate job of teaching what a theory is.

The schools probably also don't teach that most people don't get as much radiation as would be optimal for health. People should react to radiation symbols on bananas by saying, "oh, radioactive potassium-40, yum!", but do you think they would?

Of course, you can say that their understanding of theory and fact does not accord with yours but that is like moving the goalposts when Philly nears the end-zone.

These books are for children, not professional scientists. It isn't the same playing field.

Perhaps if the stickers said, "Evolution is a scientific theory; alternatives to evolution fall short of being theories, and therefore lack legitimacy," people would react differently.

223 posted on 01/26/2005 9:56:19 AM PST by Physicist
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To: Modernman
When man proposes something that is contrary to the Word, I stand behind the Word.

Evolution is not compatible with the Bible, so I stand behind the Bible. Call me naive. Call me what you will, but those "centuries old" text that you deride are Truth and Life.

JM
224 posted on 01/26/2005 9:57:19 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: ml1954
The Spanish Inquisition was a sinful manifestation of incorrect theology, and not related to Christians' not wanting theory taught as fact, and not accepting everything their college science profs tell them as gospel.

It is typical of the left to use aberrations of Christianity that do not reflect God's will, or Christ-like behavior as representative of what Christianity is, but it is absolutely specious to do so.

Try again. (and leave out the Crusades).

225 posted on 01/26/2005 9:57:22 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: Theo

I stand corrected.


226 posted on 01/26/2005 9:58:21 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: Modernman
"So, your god wants you to reject reality? "

The Word says that we see with our eyes is temporary, and things we can not see, they are eternal. You can focus on the temporary all you want, but I will focus on the eternal.

JM
227 posted on 01/26/2005 9:58:30 AM PST by JohnnyM
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To: jwalsh07
Is genetically modified wheat a subject for science class or philosophy class?

The science of it is appropriate for science class, but the ethical issues of bioengeneering are appropriate for a philosophy class.

228 posted on 01/26/2005 9:58:40 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: ml1954
No it's not. The essence of ID is that an 'Intelligent Designer' (=God) best explains the diversity of life, not evolution. ID opposes the evolution.

Sorry, you are simply wrong. ID does not exclude evolution and ID does not require God unless you think Monsanto is God.

229 posted on 01/26/2005 9:58:52 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Drammach


In response to post 100

Choose your own words,

Did I ever say that Agnostic meant atheist?


230 posted on 01/26/2005 10:02:17 AM PST by LauraleeBraswell (Well, it's not the IRA that's strapping bombs to themselves!)
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To: JohnnyM
When man proposes something that is contrary to the Word, I stand behind the Word.

Man did not create evolution and all the evidence of it. God did. By rejecting evolution, you reject God. You will have to explain your blasphemy when you die.

Evolution is not compatible with the Bible, so I stand behind the Bible.

The majority of the world's Christian denominations disagree with your incorrect interpretation of the Bible.

Call me naive.

Okay.

Call me what you will, but those "centuries old" text that you deride are Truth and Life.

You mean the Koran?

231 posted on 01/26/2005 10:02:40 AM PST by Modernman (What is moral is what you feel good after. - Ernest Hemingway)
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To: Physicist

Your reply was not unexpected.


232 posted on 01/26/2005 10:03:09 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: JohnnyM
When man proposes something that is contrary to the Word, I stand behind the Word.

Failure to Deliberate.

Why do you ever bother to discuss anything, with anyone? What can you gain? You already have the Word.

233 posted on 01/26/2005 10:04:28 AM PST by Physicist
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To: JohnnyM
Who was walking in the Garden in the cool of the day? Gen 3:8 - They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and the man and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God among the trees of the garden.

(If I wanted to be combative, I would say "Okay, prove that the expression 'They heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden' is not a poetic expression or literary device meaning, 'They sensed God's presence.'")

All that passage shows is that, according to the Bible, God can appear in human form or take human shape. That doesn't mean his true form is that of a human, anymore than Moses seeing a burning bush that is not consumed means that an angel's true form is that of a shrub en fuego.

(This could lead to some theological musings of mine with regard to whether any particular form of matter is or could be more or less pleasing to God, or whether all matter is the equally pleasing. I could imagine, to him, having created it all, he would not particularly favor one form of matter over another. This could lead to some interesting speculation regarding the Eucharist, the incarnation of Jesus and evolution.)

234 posted on 01/26/2005 10:05:39 AM PST by WildHorseCrash
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To: Jessarah; WildTurkey
BINGO, Jessarah!

To use the error of a Sunday School teacher to say that Genesis isn't true is a false argument. (I had a teacher once say that blacks were meant to be slaves of whites according to the Bible).

The whole problem here is THEISTIC EVOLUTION. There is no inconsistency in an atheist who is using science to explain how things have happened without a God. (It is a great leap of faith to do so, however).

But to be a theistic evolutionist, one must delete parts of Scripture to make it line up with evolution, and it requires quite a bit of contortion to make it work.

235 posted on 01/26/2005 10:06:12 AM PST by ohioWfan (Have you PRAYED for your President today?)
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To: Modernman
The science of it is appropriate for science class, but the ethical issues of bioengeneering are appropriate for a philosophy class.

Bioengineering wheat is Intelligent Design. No way around it. Technology is moving past Darwinism and only the "Luddites":-} will continue to demand the blasphemous words ID be kept in the basement.

236 posted on 01/26/2005 10:07:02 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: ohioWfan
How do you, as a theistic evolutionist, understand how God uniquely gifted humanity with thinking, and spiritual understanding that animals do not share?

I already have. I said that it is my understanding of God that he gave Adam a soul and immortality and free will. This was only done AFTER humans reached a certain level of development such that they had the mental capacity to understand the consequences of their actions.

237 posted on 01/26/2005 10:07:25 AM PST by WildTurkey (When will CBS Retract and Apologize?)
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To: LauraleeBraswell
Did I ever say that Agnostic meant atheist?

That's what I was asking you.

Don't answer a question with a question..

238 posted on 01/26/2005 10:07:29 AM PST by Drammach (Freedom; not just a job, it's an adventure..)
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To: Modernman
Man did not create evolution and all the evidence of it. God did. By rejecting evolution, you reject God. You will have to explain your blasphemy when you die.

You have a poor understanding of God if you think rejecting evolution is blasphemous. God is about souls, not strata.

239 posted on 01/26/2005 10:08:51 AM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07
In all candor, I actually do eat bananas to get more radiation. I strongly discourage Chiquita from using this as a selling point.
240 posted on 01/26/2005 10:10:55 AM PST by Physicist
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