[secret garden]

The stench lives on, courtesy of the ECUSA.

[ScottM1968]

Add the Lutheran church to the lost.

The Bible does not support condoning openly sinful relationships between heterosexual or homosexual people. It also states that those who are in leadership positions are held to an even higher level of accountability.

There can be no legitimate argument on this issue in favor of active adulterous heterosexual clergy or homosexual clergy.

This is sad.

[Charles Henrickson]

E.L.C.A.
Tune: “Y.M.C.A.”

“Luth’ran” doesn’t mean quite the same
As what you’ve been taught to know by that name.
We’re removin’ all the scandal and shame
Of a church that stands for something.

Luth’ran, no, you’re not misinformed,
Yes, it’s true now, we commune the Reformed.
No forced union made us bow or conform,
Just a warm and fuzzy feeling.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
We have women in black,
Now there’s no turning back
To the hang ups of dead white guys.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
You can set yourself free
From dead orthodoxy,
You can do whatever you please.

Luth’ran, won’t you please come along
To the Elca, where’s there’s no right or wrong.
In the Elca, heretics can belong,
They can teach at seminary.

“Luth’ran,” but our fingers were crossed,
All our doctrine has been totally lost.
All that’s Luth’ran is what we have embossed
On our cards and stationery.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
We have women in black,
Now there’s no turning back
To the hang ups of dead white guys.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
You can set yourself free
From dead orthodoxy,
You can do whatever you please.

Elca, where it’s very uncouth
And unwelcome to say you have the truth
And where seldom is a word ever heard
To discourage sin or error.

Elca, where it’s all shades of gray,
I said, Elca, where it’s hip to be gay.
Our umbrella is as big as a tent,
There’s no need for you to repent.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
We have women in black,
Now there’s no turning back
To the hang ups of dead white guys.

It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
It’s fun to be in the E.L.C.A.
You can set yourself free
From dead orthodoxy,
You can do whatever you please.

Charlie Henrickson

[claudiustg]

---But "those who feel conscience-bound to call people [as pastors] in committed same-sex unions should refrain from making the call a media event ---

Do the righteous hide their public deeds from public view?

[Nowhere Man]

Soubds like a bunch of gutless wonders to me. Either do the Biblical and right thing and withhold sactions for homosexual marriages and clergy or doing the wrong thing and support them. Of course I prefer the former but I wish they make a decision so we know where they stand although we do have strong suspicions where they stand. It is important to just make a decision and live with it. Still, I say, heck with the bishops debating this back and forth for years, if I had the power, I'd make the decision and it would be for the natural, right and Bibically based decision not to saction homosexual marriages and clergy and it would stay that way. Looks like I'll be checking out the Missouri Synod. I don't think the Lutheran Church is lost but this section, ELCA, seems to be and I would say it is.

[SoDak]

I knew this is how they would handle it. Incrementalism, basically. I need to find a new church.

[BigSkyFreeper]

I say this as a Lutheran:

It was only a matter of time

*sigh* Ugh.

[Waco]

Another "Church" just blinked itself out.

[Swordmaker]

"So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth. " - Revelations 3:16

"The hottest places in Hell are reserved for those who in time of
great moral crises maintain their neutrality." - Dante Aleghieri

[Die Zaubertuba]

Here's where I was going--sorry I wasn't more concise:

The point is, this whole thing is a "trial baloon" by the liberals in our synod to see if they can swing the pendulum any further without breaking it in two. You can see in the language of the report that the Task Force clearly sees and fears this as a pontential point of division for the ELCA.

They are attempting to "soften" the heresies they're introducing by basically developing a "don't ask, don't tell" approach. If these recommendations were moved and accepted on the floor at CWA in August, it would still (IMHO) split the church because I think most of us see it basically nullifies the "Vision and Expectations" and "Definitions and Guidelines for Discipline" documents specifically prohibiting the rostering of Homosexuals, even though this report says that is not what they're intending.

I saw a lot of Lutherans hotly debate "Called to Common Mission" at the Delaware/MD synod a couple of years ago. That was a much finer theological hair to split than this and the measure encoutered some difficulty even in a predominantly liberal synod.

Given the gravity of this issue and the feelings of the ELCA congregations, I really can't see this passing. The most likely outcome (and we've been here before) is that after considerable and heated debate on the measure it will be tabled, and we will still be left with the "Vision and Expectations" and "Definitions and Guidelines for Discipline" documents.

...at least until they try again...

[NYer]

That the ELCA continue to have no official policy on same-sex unions, but "respect" a 1993 ELCA bishops' statement that does not approve such ceremonies as official church acts;

Yet another organized faith group, caves in to the homosexual agenda.

Vatican Document On Homosexual Unions

“Homosexual unions are totally lacking in the biological and anthropological elements of marriage and family which would be the basis, on the level of reason, for granting them legal recognition. Such unions are not able to contribute in a proper way to the procreation and survival of the human race. The possibility of using recently discovered methods of artificial reproduction, beyond involving a grave lack of respect for human dignity,(15) does nothing to alter this inadequacy.”
CONSIDERATIONS REGARDING PROPOSALS TO GIVE LEGAL RECOGNITION TO UNIONS BETWEEN HOMOSEXUAL PERSONS

Catholic Ping - please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

[DBeers]

But "those who feel conscience-bound to call people [as pastors] in committed same-sex unions should refrain from making the call a media event either as an act of defiance or with the presumption of being prophetic,"

Religious don't ask don't tell seems to preclude honest witness.

[Aquinasfan]

A Lutheran task force handed a victory to homosexual rights groups yesterday by recommending that although the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America should not change its policy against ordaining homosexual clergy, it should not censure churches that break the rule.

Contradiction doesn't mean much to "theologians" anymore. Bring back St. Thomas, please!

[kittymyrib]

The other real Lutheran bodies should demand the E*CA drop the word from their title. This is the typical lib response one would expect from false prophets who have dumped the Bible's teachings, not just on the sin of homosexuality, but on everything but "love thy neighbor". That they should have the audacity to say congregations are free to ordain lesbians and homosexuals but they should do so secretly, without media attention so as not to offend the givers, is the height of satanic hubris. No Christian should belong to such an obviously fallen group.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

Cowards.

[HamiltonJay]

it should not censure churches that break the rule.

In other words the rules are meaningless.... makes me wonder what other "rules" the Lutheran leadership gives lip service too.

[Guenevere]

We belonged to the Lutheran Church for 14 years...

..and left shortly before they caved/converted/compromised to the ELCA.

We are thankful and happy for the Presbyterian Church, PCA who does not compromise or ....condone such as this!

[Juana la Loca]

They'll rue the day they turned a blind eye to this. I say give it 10 years and you'll see a sex scandal in the Lutheran church with young boys at vacation bible school getting molested by gay clergy. It's a shame they won't learn the lessons from the Catholic church scandal. We didn't have a pedophile problem, we had a practicing homosexual priest problem.

[longtermmemmory]

so they decided to leave things as is and continue to play violins while their churches burn.

or

The lazy sheppards decided allowing wolves with the flock are a nusance and not a problem.

[Jaded]

More ear-tickling.