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To: TAdams8591
Don't you think we are facing such nonsense because of the silence of the church over the past years? We should never come to this point. We're here because we're not the salt and light we're supposed to be.

Stepping forward, Niemoeller looked Hitler in the eye and responded: "As Christians and churchmen, we too have a responsibility to the German people. That responsibility was entrusted to us by God, and neither you nor anyone in this world has the power to take it from us."
A great hush settled over the room as everyone realized that these words signaled a great divide. Middle-of-the-road churchmen felt that Niemoeller had ruined their chances of easing their tensions with Hitler. Protesting his rhetoric as "abrasive" and "divisive," they drew up a statement condemning Niemoeller, and then all but one of them resigned from the Pastors' Emergency League. Martin Niemoeller, who had counted on the support of his fellow pastors in his stand against Hitler's policies, left that meeting virtually alone.

http://www.confessingchurcharchive.homestead.com/barmensermon.html

I repeat the Philly clergy is silent on the matter.

162 posted on 01/14/2005 3:58:05 AM PST by tutstar ( <{{--->< http://ripe4change.4-all.org Violations of Florida Statutes ongoing!)
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To: tutstar
Tutstar, in answer to your first question, YES!!!!

But there are better ways to fight back. Do you really think 11 men entering an area with 30,000 people hostile to their message were going to convert a single one of them by singing and yelling bible verses over a blowhorn? Do you really think those men believed they were going to convert anyone with that method? Unless they are delusional, I think not. They were there to agitate. And knowing the fascist nature of the Philadelphia government, they probably knew they would be arrested and charged. I think they honestly and rightly believe the civil rights of Christians in the US are in jeopardy. And they want to push the issue in the courts hoping to somehow protect and preserve those rights. With the Liberal and activist nature of our present day courts, now is NOT the time. McCarvage and his group are going to help further jeopardize those rights they seek to protect.

I have lived in the city of Philadelphia for most of my life. If you were to traverse the streets of Philadelphia, on any given day, on this very day, you would encounter several people on street corners who are preaching and quoting from the bible. Go to the Fernrock Transportation Center in Philadelphia. There is a preacher who lives across from the station and continually and perpetually has a microphone system set up outside his house (near or beside the street) replete with a soapbox upon which he stands each and every day, many times a day preaching and quoting form the bible. He is particularly mindful about when children and teenagers are letting out of school and he preaches to them daily after they get off the train to catch the bus on their way home. His message is not berating, however, but positive. The kids, among themselves make jokes and mock him, and seem to think he is nuts, but I know they are listening. I believe what he doing is good. And he has every right to do it.

That said, I believe McCarvage and his group has every right to do what they did, whether we support his methods or find them distasteful, whether or not we believe they are effective or ineffective and whether or not he is or isn't the biggest weirdo on the planet. Furthermore, official actions the Philadelphia government took against McCarvage and his gang are fascist, despicable and far worse than anything the "supposed" perpetrators did. At MOST they should have been charged with some misdemeanor, for disobeying police when they were asked to move to the other side of the street.

Additionally, if the situation had been reversed, I can guarantee you NOTHING would have happened to the homosexual group. I was present when ACT UP trespassed upon PRIVATE property, ACTED UP for over an hour, disrupting a Republican function, and nothing happened. Police arrived (after an hour) and asked them to leave. They should have been arrested on the spot.

Thus, the Philadelphia government has an obvious bias which is deeply disturbing.

Lastly, I would like to see McCarvage and his group end this style of protest, because it is a losing strategy.

I would prefer that they had protested outside the event, with a larger group of folks, which included area residents (not people from VA) with protest signs. THAT would have been far more effective and may have inspired other area residents and people from the city of Philadelphia and elsewhere to fight back themselves. It would have planted the more fertile idea that they and all of us have a right to our say in these matters for instance whether the city of Philadelphia or any city should be allowing groups to openly tout perversion on public property with the use of taxpayer money.

186 posted on 01/14/2005 8:04:08 AM PST by TAdams8591 (It ceases to be OUR charity when the GOVERNMENT gives it away!)
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