Posted on 01/04/2005 11:36:34 AM PST by SJackson
WASHINGTON (ABP)—The man who may be the next chief justice of the United States reportedly gave a speech in which he suggested church-state separation did nothing to prevent the Holocaust.
At a conference in November on religious freedom, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia offered a lengthy critique of the idea that the framers of the Constitution supported strict separation between church and state. According to accounts of the speech from the Associated Press and the Jerusalem Post, he then pointed to episodes of American history that he said proved the government has always supported religion.
"There is something wrong with the principle of neutrality (toward religion by government)," Scalia said, according to the Jerusalem newspaper. The kind of neutrality the framers intended, he continued, "is not neutrality between religiousness and non-religiousness; it is between denominations of religion."
Scalia contrasted that with the reticence of modern-day European leaders to discuss God or religion in public life. "You will not hear the word 'God' cross the lips of a French premier or an Italian head of state," Scalia said. "But that has never been the American way."
The AP story noted that, in response to an audience member's question about church-state separation, Scalia said the following: "Did it turn out that, by reason of the separation of church and state, the Jews were safer in Europe than they were in the United States of America? I don't think so."
The Jerusalem Post reported a slightly different version of Scalia's response: "Do you think it's going to make Jews safer? It didn't prove that way in Europe."
Scalia's comment attracted little attention until it was mentioned in a Dec. 2 column by liberal talk-show host Thomas Hartmann on the website CommonDreams.org.
"Scalia has an extraordinary way of not letting facts confound his arguments, but this time he's gone completely over the top by suggesting that a separation of church and state facilitated the Holocaust," Hartmann wrote.
Hartmann noted that, in actuality, church and state were closely wed in Nazi Germany, with German dictator Adolph Hitler going so far as to unite all German Protestant denominations into one government-controlled "Reich Church" and to appoint a "Reichsbishop," Lutheran pastor Ludwig Müller, to head the entity. Müller, like Hitler, committed suicide at the end of the war.
Scalia's comments were delivered at a conference commemorating the 350th anniversary of Congregation Shearith Israel in New York, one of the nation's oldest synagogues.
The congregation's senior rabbi, Marc Angel, was present for the speech and said the AP reporter took the comment in question "completely out of context."
Angel said Scalia was discussing Europe's current situation—where "people have taken God out of government," rather than World War II-era Europe.
"In a secular society, such as Europe, are Jews really better off?" the rabbi asked. "I don't think he was talking about the Holocaust. He was talking about the current situation."
But Verena Dobnik, the AP reporter who wrote the story, stood by the quotation's accuracy and said she understood Scalia to be talking about Europe during World War II.
"I didn't make up the quote," she said, noting that she had been careful to audiotape Scalia's speech.
Scalia has made several headlines in the past year for run-ins with reporters covering his speeches. Prior to one incident, he did not allow journalists to record his public comments at all. He now reportedly permits audiotapes of his remarks for reporters' own use in writing their stories, but does not allow them to be distributed.
Angel said that, due to the controversy over the remarks, he has written Scalia requesting permission to release a tape the synagogue made of the speech.
Scalia generally is considered one of the Supreme Court's two most conservative members and a front-runner for the job of chief justice, which many court watchers believe is likely to become vacant soon. In his opinions, he has frequently sided with those who argue for more government support for religious institutions and allowances for government endorsement of religious messages.
Hartmann said such views, coupled with the judge's view of history, are dangerous.
"In some distant place, Adolf Hitler and Bishop Müller must be smiling at Scalia's encouragement of the growing conflation of church and state in America. It's exactly what they worked so hard to achieve, and what helped make their horrors possible."
Supreme Court spokesperson Kathy Arberg said Scalia had no comment on the controversy.
Scalia: Church-state separation didn't protect Jews in Holocaust
....but the German National Guard did?
Not even my most liberal Jewish family and friends can deny this.
Even if you take Scalia's comments at face value, he didn't say what Hartmann accuses him of: but this time he's gone completely over the top by suggesting that a separation of church and state facilitated the Holocaust," Hartmann wrote.
Saying it didn't protect them is a far cry from saying it facilitated the Holocaust. Hartmann is a liar and an idiot.
This person has it backwards. Religion has always been a strong influence in American government. Only recently have attemps been made to separate them. So Scalia's view would be to bring the U.S. closer to its historical roots.
I'm not sure what you're basing your comparison on, but I've yet to see gas chambers run by anarchists and eco-nuts.
Not yet.
Yes, whoever he is. And he fails to note that the Reich Church was a creation of the state, not an independent organ, which essentially worshipped the state.
Exactly.
should have been
Yes, whoever he is. And he fails to note that the Reich Church was a creation of the state, not an independent organ, which essentially worshipped the state, supressing traditional faiths.
Even more exactly right than the first version.
IMHO Jews are much safer in a state that encourages the free exercise of religion, as our Constitution does, properly interpreted, and believes that the source of all our rights, regardless of our faith, is God, as our Declaration of Independence holds.
Exactly... thanks for posting this, I have bookmarked it.
Heck, they would if they could.
and also, a means to be used by the state to make it easier, after the succesful conclusion of the war, to destroy religion altogether. According to Hitler, people should not worship anything else than the state (and himself of course). Read Ian Kershaw ("Hubris" & "Nemesis") or William Shirer ("Rise and fall of the Third Reich"), the Nazi's wanted to destroy the church, the Reich church was only a temporary means to deflect criticism. Nazi thugs at the lower levels committed regular attacks against clergy and churches.
What a left-handed and twisted way to work hitler into his comments about the brilliant Scalia...
If you listen to the anarchists and eco-nuts that seem to show for every demonstration these days, it sounds as if they would not be opposed to gas chambers for their "enemies". Hate of the "establishment" is their unifying theme.
BTW. The Nazis were deep into a pagan type "nature worship" and Ernst Rhom's "Storm Troopers" or "Brown Shirts" of the 1920s and early 30s were pure anarchists by any definition. Disruption of establishment institutions, destruction of property, and intimitation by violance were their trademarks.
Sound familiar?
Bingo.
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